A
A window to the soul
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Do you want to play the I Was Right Game with me?
Oh, look at the time. Sorry, something just came up...
Do you want to play the I Was Right Game with me?
Yes, but WHY?
What did he accomplish on the cross? Anything?
Personally, what I find more profound is that he willingly went on the cross in the first place. There is the salvation message that emphasizes the act as cosmic and sacrificial and providing atonement in some mysterious way, but I wish people would talk about how much he demonstrates here in a down to earth way. It's something I find much more difficult to do than simply believe.
The Last Supper speech...the last message he wanted to pound into his disciples' heads... is that they must each be servants to each other. That that was how they would truly be his followers. He didn't say just believe in him. He wanted them to be "excellent to each other". Oh wait, that was Bill and Ted.... nevermind.
What inclines you to such a high view of human ability or low view of God's demands?
I have been working my way through the Bible for the first time in my life. I am enjoying it immensely, and I find it helps center me every day, to read about God and Godly intentions.
I cannot seem to embrace the notion that Jesus is the son of God though, at least not in a way that is different than any one of us being the son of God. And I really cannot believe he rose from the dead to ascend into Heaven; it is just too hard for me to suspend my disbelief enough to buy that.
I also somewhat feel, that since the Bible was written by men, that it almost feels like a barrier in some ways to God. I prefer to hear God speak directly to me in the ways I hear him best (my intuition, etc), versus taking as Divine words in a book written by people who lived ? 2000 years ago? I mean, how do we really know that God felt that way about Jesus. We really only have Jesus' word for it (that he was the son of God), and the mystery of his body's disappearance from his burial tomb (which, from what I understand, was unguarded for those few days).
I think it's holier to feel that one-on-one intimate connection with God, than to let the Bible come between us, though, like I said, I think the Bible is a great tool for the deliverence of God's Divine message and love for us, and an epic historical document.
You make God's relationship to man sound like a celestial or cosmic kiing, that is why I say it sounds like Zeus in mount olympus, God's relationship to man is like that of unrequited love or the love someone has for someone out of their mind or insensible, the love that doesnt quit.
It depends on how you view it. It wasn't just a service to mankind, it was also obedience to God the father in the face of something he clearly did not want to experience... "take this cup (of wrath) from me."
But, people don't like hearing about obeying authority unto suffering.
To me the under emphasized part of the story is the resurrection. It's a pretty depressing story if you leave Christ in the grave and don't emphasize the victory over death.
I have been working my way through the Bible for the first time in my life. I am enjoying it immensely, and I find it helps center me every day, to read about God and Godly intentions.
I cannot seem to embrace the notion that Jesus is the son of God though, at least not in a way that is different than any one of us being the son of God. And I really cannot believe he rose from the dead to ascend into Heaven; it is just too hard for me to suspend my disbelief enough to buy that.
I also somewhat feel, that since the Bible was written by men, that it almost feels like a barrier in some ways to God. I prefer to hear God speak directly to me in the ways I hear him best (my intuition, etc), versus taking as Divine words in a book written by people who lived ? 2000 years ago? I mean, how do we really know that God felt that way about Jesus. We really only have Jesus' word for it (that he was the son of God), and the mystery of his body's disappearance from his burial tomb (which, from what I understand, was unguarded for those few days).
I think it's holier to feel that one-on-one intimate connection with God, than to let the Bible come between us, though, like I said, I think the Bible is a great tool for the deliverence of God's Divine message and love for us, and an epic historical document.
Good luck. It's a lot to digest, I know.
I think Spurgeon will condemn you to hell though. Let me just get his trolling out of the way for you: It's a sin to "search". You must testify fully right here before Spurgeon of the Six Facts Plainly Revealed.. or it's bye-bye time for you.
:hi:
I could be mistaken since I base my knowledge on a book called The Compleat Enchanter which featured someone travelling to that reality, fantastic book but wouldnt vouch for its accuracy in terms of relating norse myths.
I have been working my way through the Bible for the first time in my life. I am enjoying it immensely, and I find it helps center me every day, to read about God and Godly intentions.
I cannot seem to embrace the notion that Jesus is the son of God though, at least not in a way that is different than any one of us being the son of God. And I really cannot believe he rose from the dead to ascend into Heaven; it is just too hard for me to suspend my disbelief enough to buy that.
I also somewhat feel, that since the Bible was written by men, that it almost feels like a barrier in some ways to God. I prefer to hear God speak directly to me in the ways I hear him best (my intuition, etc), versus taking as Divine words in a book written by people who lived ? 2000 years ago? I mean, how do we really know that God felt that way about Jesus. We really only have Jesus' word for it (that he was the son of God), and the mystery of his body's disappearance from his burial tomb (which, from what I understand, was unguarded for those few days).
I think it's holier to feel that one-on-one intimate connection with God, than to let the Bible come between us, though, like I said, I think the Bible is a great tool for the deliverence of God's Divine message and love for us, and an epic historical document.
This is interesting, while I dont agree entirely I think it is more insightful than biblical literalism.
I can imagine reading the NT alone and maybe coming to your position if I also had some other outside influence on my thought.
I think though, that if you read the OT and NT together it becomes very apparent that God is the King and that justice demands that we serve him and not that he serve us. Yet, as you note above he has humbled himself and sought after us and sought to serve us. This is exactly why you see the wedding analogy in scripture where Christ is the dutiful bridegroom and the church is a whore of a bride.
I do think that obedience to legitimate authority is an important thing, I do think that it can involve suffering and is as worthy of dying for as fighting illegitimate authority or oppression.
However, I dont see it being that way exactly, the whole detailed recording of events from the moment of Jesus arrest, the trial, the role of the seperate authorities, Hebrew and Roman, is all there for a reason and its NOT recriminations. I believe it is because right up until and including the last moments of Jesus it did not have to be that way.
Any of the soldiers, onlookers, others could have tried to stop it but they didnt but there is no need to believe that it was a fatalistic predestined sequence of events. What it is is a record of the failings of humankind, we dont live up to what we could be or should be, we fall short and are imperfect despite the potential (that's what infuriated Lucifer et al and lead to their betrayal of God).
It happened because both Jesus and God had hope and trusted in man's better selves. They still do and always will, until mankind is worthy of it. Then perhaps finally a world will exist in which the prescence of God can return and finally God himself.
Yeah, all of those are points at which reason ceases to be useful and faith must takehold.
What is God's divine message and love for us that you believe is conveyed in the bible?
You base your knowledge of the Æsir on some book? Some fictional tale?
If I were you I would make Thor an offering, to appeal for his forgiveness of your ignorance, lest he smite you with Mjolnir!
Yet, in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus relied on what was possible with God and not man. Moreover, if Jesus was trusting in man why did he ask God not to have the "cup" taken away?
Mark 14:36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."