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  1. #61
    Senior Member Kurt.Is.God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    Do not be upset by anything, God cannot be mocked. He is without blame or blemish. Do not be bothered with the way of those hardened by sin's deceitfulness, but find your hope in the heart of Christ, He is blameless.
    Uh, I disagree. Definitely DO bother with non-believers if you're a Christian. You have no idea whether they've hardened their hearts, but if you care about them at all, and if you really realize how terrible you were as a person before God picked you up (and how terrible you still are), you WOULD bother with them, and you'd be as patient with them as it takes.

    I do think you're doing the "bothering" wrong, though.

  2. #62
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    'Saved'? No one will be saved! Only two humans will survive. The cowardly dead will go to Helheim, the evil dead to Niflheim. The courageous will go to Valhalla and battle with Odin, Thor and the other Æsir against the fire giants of Muspelheim at the time of Ragnarok!

  3. #63
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt.Is.God View Post
    Uh, I disagree. Definitely DO bother with non-believers if you're a Christian. You have no idea whether they've hardened their hearts, but if you care about them at all, and if you really realize how terrible you were as a person before God picked you up (and how terrible you still are), you WOULD bother with them, and you'd be as patient with them as it takes.

    I do think you're doing the "bothering" wrong, though.
    If one person is following another, and another the second, then could the person in the middle turn to face the one behind him while they walk without getting them both lost?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Kurt.Is.God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    If one person is following another, and another that one, then could the person in the middle turn to face the one behind him while they walk without getting them both lost? Righteousness is handed down from above. In this way we are saved: Christ, who is without blame, came from God, being born by the Holy Spirit. He came to provide the death by which God's love would swallow up death, the penalty of sin.
    Who's turning around? Could you explain your metaphor?

    And I understand the Gospel. My point is that salvation is Grace-based, and evangelism is borne out of gratitude.

  5. #65
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Then we do not disagree.

    The meaning is that it is not wise to concern ourselves with whether or not people follow our example. Peter had to be corrected for even concerning himself too much with another disciple. That is the level of devotion we are called to live unto Christ.

    We are servants of the Lord, we wait upon Him. Therefore, we wait for no man. But how can we keep from waiting if we place our hope in man? The spirit is willing to follow, but the flesh is weak. We foolishly look often more often in terms of human success and ignore God's love.

    There are those who are loved by the Lord who concern themselves with the feeding of other believers, and care for the poor and needy. However, this is done in love, not in a teaching fashion, for we have one who teaches us, the Holy Spirit.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Kurt.Is.God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    The meaning is that it is not wise to concern ourselves with whether or not people follow our example. Peter had to be corrected for even concerning himself too much with another disciple. That is the level of devotion we are called to live unto Christ.

    We are servants of the Lord, we wait upon Him. Therefore, we wait for no man. But how can we keep from waiting if we place our hope in man?
    Yeah, I agree with you on that. But devotion unto Christ also means evangelizing. Evangelizing has everything to do with concerning yourself with others--not to judge them and make them follow Christ's example, but to do that whole gratitude-love thing. If Spurgeon was upset at our sin and was posting that to tell us what we're doing wrong, then you're right. But if that was an attempt at evangelism, he's doing it wrong. They're pretty different.

  7. #67
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt.Is.God View Post
    Yeah, I agree with you on that. But devotion unto Christ also means evangelizing. Evangelizing has everything to do with concerning yourself with others--not to judge them and make them follow Christ's example, but to do that whole gratitude-love thing. If Spurgeon was upset at our sin and was posting that to tell us what we're doing wrong, then you're right. But if that was an attempt at evangelism, he's doing it wrong. They're pretty different.
    Ah... yes. 2 peter 1 comes to mind.

    5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Kurt.Is.God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    Ah... yes. 2 peter 1 comes to mind.

    5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
    Uh, so we agree? Maybe you edited your post, but I remember you saying you're the son of a pastor. So am I. High five.

  9. #69
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    6. Every sinner who trusts the Lord Jesus Christ has been chosen, redeemed, and called, and must be forever saved.
    It is written in the Book of God, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31). May God the Holy Spirit now enable you by his sovereign grace to trust the Lord Jesus Christ.
    I kind of was in to the whole Jesus thing when I was 8 or 9, so does that mean I'm saved now, since when I was 8 I must have been forever saved?

    Just asking...

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    By bringing me under the hearing of the Gospel, convicting me of my utterly sinful nature and total inability to earn acceptance with God on my own merit, giving me a new heart which loves God and the things of God, and giving me total assurance of salvation through the person and finished work of Jesus Christ, my Substitute.

    I can't even begin to describe the joy and peace He has given me.

    That's the short answer, but there's so much more to it than that. I've been a Christian for over 20 years, and it has been a journey filled with trials, joys, and sorrows--and I'm deeply grateful to my God for all that he's done.

    I want the world to know how great my Savior is, and they won't know unless the Word is preached to them.
    You should lead with this, hun. This is everything, and much more real and contextual.

    I apologize for the hard stance earlier. It would never be my desire to harm another believer, please know that. False “Christians” who are merely religious do much damage to people, and it isn’t right. I’m really glad you spoke of your desire to share your joy. Yeshua spoke all of the things you did, and because of his nature, people knew his heart… and thus were getting the whole message, and not just part of it.

    As you state about sin, that does not mean one is going to be perfect – we have a long way to go and have to keep allowing him to transform us and smooth out those bumps. It takes a lifetime. Lord knows I mess up continually (and He loves me anyway... ). But if people can’t glimpse the place your heart is coming from and how you really feel and think about them, and how He really thinks and feels about them, they are going to be turned off, and rightly so.

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