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  1. #171
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Spurgeon is God's sole Middle Manager. Here to deliver progress reports to the "higher ups". Testify to him.. and you might live and increase your penny wages. He is your salvation.

  2. #172
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Good luck. It's a lot to digest, I know.

    I think Spurgeon will condemn you to hell though. Let me just get his trolling out of the way for you: It's a sin to "search". You must testify fully right here before Spurgeon of the Six Facts Plainly Revealed.. or it's bye-bye time for you.


    Yeah. I agree about humans being inherently flawed and imperfect. But I disagree about how it is ameliorated through Christ only. Unless God wrote those words himself in the Bible, I cannot believe strange men, no matter how spiritual or Godly, to know better what God is about, than me. And you. And anyone else who is a child of God.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I could be mistaken since I base my knowledge on a book called The Compleat Enchanter which featured someone travelling to that reality, fantastic book but wouldnt vouch for its accuracy in terms of relating norse myths.
    You base your knowledge of the Æsir on some book? Some fictional tale?

    If I were you I would make Thor an offering, to appeal for his forgiveness of your ignorance, lest he smite you with Mjolnir!

  4. #174
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Why don't you guys read Marvel comics? Everything you need to know about Thor.

  5. #175
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I have been working my way through the Bible for the first time in my life. I am enjoying it immensely, and I find it helps center me every day, to read about God and Godly intentions.


    I cannot seem to embrace the notion that Jesus is the son of God though, at least not in a way that is different than any one of us being the son of God. And I really cannot believe he rose from the dead to ascend into Heaven; it is just too hard for me to suspend my disbelief enough to buy that.


    I also somewhat feel, that since the Bible was written by men, that it almost feels like a barrier in some ways to God. I prefer to hear God speak directly to me in the ways I hear him best (my intuition, etc), versus taking as Divine words in a book written by people who lived ? 2000 years ago? I mean, how do we really know that God felt that way about Jesus. We really only have Jesus' word for it (that he was the son of God), and the mystery of his body's disappearance from his burial tomb (which, from what I understand, was unguarded for those few days).


    I think it's holier to feel that one-on-one intimate connection with God, than to let the Bible come between us, though, like I said, I think the Bible is a great tool for the deliverence of God's Divine message and love for us, and an epic historical document.
    Yeah, all of those are points at which reason ceases to be useful and faith must takehold.

    What is God's divine message and love for us that you believe is conveyed in the bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This is interesting, while I dont agree entirely I think it is more insightful than biblical literalism.
    how so?

    Also, do you have a better term than "biblical literalism" as it's not really very descriptive of the the view you're referring to.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #176
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I can imagine reading the NT alone and maybe coming to your position if I also had some other outside influence on my thought.

    I think though, that if you read the OT and NT together it becomes very apparent that God is the King and that justice demands that we serve him and not that he serve us. Yet, as you note above he has humbled himself and sought after us and sought to serve us. This is exactly why you see the wedding analogy in scripture where Christ is the dutiful bridegroom and the church is a whore of a bride.
    I hope I dont seem sectarian in saying this but I think within Protestant theology there is a terrible sort of AA style rehabilitative pattern going on, people live a life, they then get on a terrible guilt trip and decide to change their ways, it even goest to the reading of the bible.

    God of the old testament seems like a bit of a tyrant, in the new testament he's either a totally different guy or a guy who has undergone the same sort of bizarro change of heart and personality doing just about anything to make amends, including offering his son for sacrifice, like what he once asked of Abraham.

    Anyway, I dont buy that, I'm well versed in the old testament, probably more versed in it than the new testament besides the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and the books of James and Revelation, my favourite books of the old testament are Amos, Isaiah, Sirach, Habakkuk, Maccabees, I'm not sure of the book which Gideon appears in but that one too. I see Jesus as part of the rabbinic and prophetic tradition, entirely consistent with it and correcting some of the more anthropomorphic and war God ideas.

  7. #177
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do think that obedience to legitimate authority is an important thing, I do think that it can involve suffering and is as worthy of dying for as fighting illegitimate authority or oppression.

    However, I dont see it being that way exactly, the whole detailed recording of events from the moment of Jesus arrest, the trial, the role of the seperate authorities, Hebrew and Roman, is all there for a reason and its NOT recriminations. I believe it is because right up until and including the last moments of Jesus it did not have to be that way.

    Any of the soldiers, onlookers, others could have tried to stop it but they didnt but there is no need to believe that it was a fatalistic predestined sequence of events. What it is is a record of the failings of humankind, we dont live up to what we could be or should be, we fall short and are imperfect despite the potential (that's what infuriated Lucifer et al and lead to their betrayal of God).

    It happened because both Jesus and God had hope and trusted in man's better selves. They still do and always will, until mankind is worthy of it. Then perhaps finally a world will exist in which the prescence of God can return and finally God himself.
    Yet, in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus relied on what was possible with God and not man. Moreover, if Jesus was trusting in man why did he ask God not to have the "cup" taken away?

    Mark 14:36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #178
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yeah, all of those are points at which reason ceases to be useful and faith must takehold.

    What is God's divine message and love for us that you believe is conveyed in the bible?
    Well, when the Bible speaks to how God is Love especially, but I agree that God can punish as well. The Divine message being that God is the three O's...When that is supported in the Bible, I concur, and enjoy reading it. But when the Bible says something completely antithetical to how I know or feel God to be, then, yeah, I have to go with my own interpretation. Such as there needing to be one way for salvation only--through Christ, etc. Or that the be all, end all of believing in God is to get to Heaven. I think the point is to create Heaven on earth inasmuch as that is possible. At least it's a nice goal. The way the Bible holds Heaven up as the pinnacle of Utopia, makes me just think of dangling carrots....for the masses, and is but another example which makes me feel like the early authors/disciples were missing the whole point of God (at times).
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #179
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    You base your knowledge of the Æsir on some book? Some fictional tale?

    If I were you I would make Thor an offering, to appeal for his forgiveness of your ignorance, lest he smite you with Mjolnir!
    It is a false religion and pantheon, if it is real then those are lesser deities than my God.

  10. #180
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yet, in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus relied on what was possible with God and not man. Moreover, if Jesus was trusting in man why did he ask God not to have the "cup" taken away?

    Mark 14:36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."
    This was Mark who was asleep at the time?

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