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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Only individuals are monsters

    Not nations, peoples or groups.

    Would you agree with that?

  2. #2
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    I don't think I do.

    I think what constitutes a monster is based on the paradigm of individuals and you can assign those traits to any subdivision of nature.

  3. #3
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    On some level, but if multiple individuals who where monsters grouped up, wouldn't that make a group of monsters?

    I mean that a group can be monstrous, but it's not really the group that's the monster, it's the individuals that make up the monstrous group that are truly the monsters... So to speak...
    ...

  4. #4
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    I agree.

    For example, Cookie Monster seems to be a single entity rather than a race of sugar hungry and wheat crazed super beings who can mimic carpets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    On some level, but if multiple individuals who where monsters grouped up, wouldn't that make a group of monsters?

    I mean that a group can be monstrous, but it's not really the group that's the monster, it's the individuals that make up the monstrous group that are truly the monsters... So to speak...
    The context is a fictional diary in a film called the Odessa Files, it is a diary of a holocaust survivor who witnesses a German officer killed by an SS man, he states that he does not hate the Germans and that only individuals are monsterous not peoples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I agree.

    For example, Cookie Monster seems to be a single entity rather than a race of sugar hungry and wheat crazed super beings who can mimic carpets.
    Did you ever think that cookie monster and oscar the grouch or elmo were related?

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  8. #8
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The context is a fictional diary in a film called the Odessa Files, it is a diary of a holocaust survivor who witnesses a German officer killed by an SS man, he states that he does not hate the Germans and that only individuals are monsterous not peoples.
    Oh, hmmm, well that kind of complicates things. In that situation I think you need to get rid of the notion that monstrosity is a dichotomous trait (I'm not sure if I said that right). Basically, in that context the "monstrosity" of the group and individual is largely subjective. Uhh, what am I trying to say? Basically, in that context I think it's both. Basically, I think that everyone doing monstrous (I'm starting to dislike that word, as it seems to be standing in for something else.) is a monster on some level, regardless of whether they are doing it because of orders or because they truly are that kind of person. But, in turn, the group that they are a part of tends to take on a monstrous tendancy of it's own, it gains its own momentum so to speak.

    Sorry, I'm having difficulty organizing my thoughts right now for some reason.

    Basically, the individual is the monster in my opinion, but the group takes on traits which are common among individuals within the group. (I hope you can follow me at least a little. )
    ...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Oh, hmmm, well that kind of complicates things. In that situation I think you need to get rid of the notion that monstrosity is a dichotomous trait (I'm not sure if I said that right). Basically, in that context the "monstrosity" of the group and individual is largely subjective. Uhh, what am I trying to say? Basically, in that context I think it's both. Basically, I think that everyone doing monstrous (I'm starting to dislike that word, as it seems to be standing in for something else.) is a monster on some level, regardless of whether they are doing it because of orders or because they truly are that kind of person. But, in turn, the group that they are a part of tends to take on a monstrous tendancy of it's own, it gains its own momentum so to speak.

    Sorry, I'm having difficulty organizing my thoughts right now for some reason.

    Basically, the individual is the monster in my opinion, but the group takes on traits which are common among individuals within the group. (I hope you can follow me at least a little. )
    There is perhaps a chicken and egg scenario, the individual monster and the monsterous groupthink or social character.

    Nazism, with the benefit of hindsight which is twenty, twenty seems like something no one could have been complicit in but I dont know, even today I believe that a lot of people who would not consider themselves to be so are some how complicit in various oppressions and benefit by oppressions. It is in no way comparable to the holocaust but perhaps it is comparable, in some instances, to kristalnacht or the many events leading up to that. How could any of the people who did not oppose the Vietnam war know about the My Lai massacre? How about the recent much smaller scale murder of families by a US soldier in Afghanistan?

    I think the truth of whether or not there was an evil besides individual evil in aggregate at work in Nazism lies some place between the Hitler's willing executioners scenario on the one hand and complete innocence on the other. There was no doubt complicity but there was a lot of resistance to nazism in germany, from early on right through to the generals plots and other plots to kill Hitler.

  10. #10
    Ginkgo
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    If an individual is a monster, and there are no such things as monsters, we can only truthfully use term "monster" analogically. If we are using it as such, we may as well apply it to entire bodies of people.

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