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  1. #21
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    It seems like it would be pretty hard to define 'soul' in such a way that it would apply to all humans and no non-human-animals. So... yes?

  2. #22
    Knobgoblin mooseantlers's Avatar
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    A soul is an idea, a possibility. We can't really prove souls yet. I do believe in spirituality, because I feel it. And yes, I think animals would, other people say they don't think animals have souls. But i don't see why they wouldn't really.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    It seems like it would be pretty hard to define 'soul' in such a way that it would apply to all humans and no non-human-animals. So... yes?
    or easy:

    i think we have the concept of a soul because we are such a mystery to ourselves, because we see that derived pattern of all the interconnected things that make us tick, and we can never fully understand what it is, so we give it a name and make it into a thing, and then when we think about death that thing happens to give us a loophole over the fear, a hope that us and our loved ones can persist beyond what we see gone.

    for something to have a soul, it needs to be able to:
    1. acknowledge it's own derived pattern of being.
    2. wonder where it comes from.
    3. have the audacity to create our own answer.
    4. fear death enough to seek a loophole.
    5. be creative enough to use our invention as the loophole.

    self-awareness, curiosity, arrogance, existential fear, resourcefulness.... i know of no other animal that has all 5.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Snoopy22's Avatar
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    Solomon stated the spirit of man went upwards and the spirit of the beast goes downward (minus any comments on any of the different interpretations of ECC 3-21/22).

  5. #25
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy22 View Post
    Solomon stated the spirit of man went upwards and the spirit of the beast goes downward (minus any comments on any of the different interpretations of ECC 3-21/22).
    Man's spirit is different than the animals. God made man with eternity in mind, with animals He did not.

  6. #26
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    or easy:

    i think we have the concept of a soul because we are such a mystery to ourselves, because we see that derived pattern of all the interconnected things that make us tick, and we can never fully understand what it is, so we give it a name and make it into a thing, and then when we think about death that thing happens to give us a loophole over the fear, a hope that us and our loved ones can persist beyond what we see gone.

    for something to have a soul, it needs to be able to:
    1. acknowledge it's own derived pattern of being.
    2. wonder where it comes from.
    3. have the audacity to create our own answer.
    4. fear death enough to seek a loophole.
    5. be creative enough to use our invention as the loophole.

    self-awareness, curiosity, arrogance, existential fear, resourcefulness.... i know of no other animal that has all 5.
    That doesn't apply to all humans.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    That doesn't apply to all humans.
    nope, neither do legs:

    but considering the overwhelming percentages, this is one case where people such as myself (agnostics/atheists) barely make for the exception to the rule that proves the rule.

  8. #28
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    nope, neither do legs:

    but considering the overwhelming percentages, this is one case where people such as myself (agnostics/atheists) barely make for the exception to the rule that proves the rule.
    My point was that since people that believe in souls generally think all humans have souls (including infants and mentally handicapped people), they would have to come up with a definition that includes some non-human animals to be consistent, therefore they should think at least some non-human animals have souls.

    Basically, I was trying to say your "easy" definition of soul isn't something people that use the term "soul" really mean.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    My point was that since people that believe in souls generally think all humans have souls (including infants and mentally handicapped people), they would have to come up with a definition that includes some non-human animals to be consistent, therefore they should think at least some non-human animals have souls.

    Basically, I was trying to say your "easy" definition of soul isn't something people that use the term "soul" really mean.
    actually that's a good point - if you include infants and mentally handicapped people then people don't need to be able to believe in souls in order to have souls according to those who believe in souls...

    ...and puff goes my argument.

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