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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    There is absolutely nothing original about the wheel

    Objects turning upon an axis have existed long before humans were inspired by them
    Actually I think I ought to expand upon the post I created.

    What if I were to mention that without humanity or a similar species capable of self-awareness, there IS no wheel?

    Sure an object turning on an axis does exist physically, but without us it is not a wheel, it is merely an object turning on an axis. In the same style of the cliche argument about a tree falling in a forest with no one to hear it, I can also say that without humanity to have the concept of a wheel, is there actually a wheel?

    The componants for the wheel exist before the wheel, but the idea of the wheel does not exist before us.

    The universe and it's physical reality sit beside our own mental universes, to deny this is to deny humanity.

    It's all about perceptions.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Actually I think I ought to expand upon the post I created.

    What if I were to mention that without humanity or a similar species capable of self-awareness, there IS no wheel?

    Sure an object turning on an axis does exist physically, but without us it is not a wheel, it is merely an object turning on an axis. In the same style of the cliche argument about a tree falling in a forest with no one to hear it, I can also say that without humanity to have the concept of a wheel, is there actually a wheel?

    The componants for the wheel exist before the wheel, but the idea of the wheel does not exist before us.

    The universe and it's physical reality sit beside our own mental universes, to deny this is to deny humanity.

    It's all about perceptions.
    Of course the components exist

    Without the components, we couldn't have anything

    Could you give me an example of a human being unoriginal?

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Of course the components exist

    Without the components, we couldn't have anything

    Could you give me an example of a human being unoriginal?
    But both go together dont they? And isnt the idea of the wheel more important than the parts used to create it?

    As for a human being unoriginal, in what context? The realm of ideas or the physical realities of a surrounding?

  4. #14
    morose bourgeoisie
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    We live in a time unprecedented in history...

  5. #15
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Just as the title implies: Do you think originality is dead?

    Every time I try to look at something in a new way or I gain a new insight into something, I realise that there is someone who got there first and then I realise that the chances are I had already picked up this information sub-consciously from said person and deluded myself into believing it was my own.

    Human beings influence each other all the time; social osmosis is very real and one of the biggest influences in someones life.

    Ive noticed a lot of recycled genre's and themes in the world of entertainment and fashion. New breakthroughs seem new, especially in science or medicine, but are usually just building upon what is already there. Although this isn't necessarily bad, (the refining of an idea to greater success or benefit for others is never a bad thing), it does make you think about what might happen once the idea's stop coming....

    ps: I also know the irony in making a rather un-original topic on the nature of originality. And yes I think it is silly too.
    Lol, first allow me to relay my reaction to the title as it appeared in iSpy. :horor: I'm INFJ, and so then I looked left to see if you were an INFJ too... Heh.

    I have to say that this thought really used to trouble me when I was younger. Especially when I reached the stage of consciously trying every which way to express myself creatively. I used to get so discouraged when I'd come up with what I thought was an original sentiment or way to express it, to find it had already been done. My little wellspring of creativity would dry up as soon as I encountered that.

    Reading a little about how highly Enneagram 4s prize originality helped me to approach things in a different way. Well, so what if someone did it before? I still think there are your own twists you can add. Which may not be apparent unless you keep going with an endeavor. e.g. I thought up an idea for a phone app the other day, which I thought was brilliant. Brilliant. *falling-in-love-with-an-idea face* Only to find, it's been done. *sad face* I told my friend and he was like, so what? There's always room for variations on a theme. It was a good reminder. And what do you know? I kept thinking about it and I did come up with a different angle. (Not that I'm likely to do anything about it. :p ) There is also room for imitators in business. It's not something I'd ever like to be but it's good to remember.

    We're all influenced by others. I can still respect individualistic thoughts and products of those thoughts. What I can't abide is people who recycle and repackage someone's idea as though it were there own. Though, I think one has to take care to ensure that is what's happening... I think some people might have a thought but not feel confident about it's reception, and then go searching for back up and then present that person's work as the basis of their idea, as supporting evidence. But it can come off as pilfering from someone else's efforts. *tangent* This makes me think of all the times I'd argue with a person I knew when he would appropriate my little ideas and broadcast them as his own. So annoying!! I find it very hard to respect someone who consciously does that.

    I do think it's possible to come up with original thoughts, as they pertain to your own thought processes. It's just that humans are confined to certain common experiences and so there are always going to be people who have thought and do think very similarly to me. (And they no doubt also become discouraged in a knee-jerk fashion, lol).

  6. #16
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    It's hard to imagine anything being totally original. Elements are put together in new combinations. Some combinations just happen to look more different than others.

    I guess with time, maybe what we think as original is harder to come by because more and more of the possibilities have already been tried?
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  7. #17
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Ive noticed a lot of recycled genre's and themes in the world of entertainment and fashion. New breakthroughs seem new, especially in science or medicine, but are usually just building upon what is already there. Although this isn't necessarily bad, (the refining of an idea to greater success or benefit for others is never a bad thing), it does make you think about what might happen once the idea's stop coming....
    That doesn't in any sense contradict originality and novelty. What about all those instances where people have combined perfectly ordinary things and thoughts and created something new out of it? All the things that make you think, "Of course! Why haven't I thought of that!" in retrospect.

    The very thing about original things is that, well, they haven't occurred to us yet. Otherwise they wouldn't be original. Something that hasn't been thought yet will be thought the moment you thin about it and, hence, won't be original anymore.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  8. #18
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    That doesn't in any sense contradict originality and novelty. What about all those instances where people have combined perfectly ordinary things and thoughts and created something new out of it? All the things that make you think, "Of course! Why haven't I thought of that!" in retrospect.

    The very thing about original things is that, well, they haven't occurred to us yet. Otherwise they wouldn't be original. Something that hasn't been thought yet will be thought the moment you thin about it and, hence, won't be original anymore.
    Touche, you are correct, I take that one back.

  9. #19

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    A friend of mine once said that "We never learn anything new, we only discover of its existance."

    We were both in highschool and we never had a girlfrined till after highschool.
    Innovation is the epicenter between Imagination and Logic.
    -Stephen M Cordova

    You and your friend can draw together > http://draw.newphidias.com/ <

    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them.
    -Thomas Jefferson, 1796

  10. #20
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I think it depends on how you define "originality" here. I think developing a totally novel idea is rare, but it is possible to find novel applications for existing ideas. I think that's what innovation is about, and that matters. I mean, why would anyone sit around lamenting how little difference there is between a chariot and a Model T?

    Real and successful originality is recognizable as an idea that doesn't just introduce one single thing, but rather has a system-wide effect. Effective original ideas shift paradigms, and create facets to society that hadn't existed previously. Society hasn't stagnated, so people somewhere must be trying and implementing new ideas. There's still an avant garde, but it's hard to be a lay person and know about these kinds of things. It takes expertise and a little obsession to recognize these ideas as game changers before they percolate outwards and become standard.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

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