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  1. #1
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Default Marriage or Spiritual Marriage?

    I once heard someone ask if they were married but they said they hadn't gone through an actual marriage ceremony including witnesses.

    I agreed to marry a girlfriend but a wedding ceremony didn't ever happen. Nor did a marriage license, legal documents with the state, etc.

    What defines marriage?
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    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    It depends on the couple. But the basis of a marriage is trust bar none. Wherever you go, whoever you talk to, whatever you lose, you know that in a body, behind a set of eyes, is someone that understands you and wants to understand you. You know that any disagreement is simply that and you can respect their opinion and take heed to their counsel. They are a partner and friend in this adventure.
    I N V I C T U S

  3. #3
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    when i asked my exwife to marry me, part of the ideal was that she was on the same page as me, that we both wanted a spiritual marriage, maybe a celebration, but none of the other stuff...

    unfortunately, immigration offices don't go for spiritual marriages. so we got the paperwork done.

    and we never reached the point where we could financially afford the wedding, so i suppose we where spiritually engaged while being legally married...

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    I once heard someone ask if they were married but they said they hadn't gone through an actual marriage ceremony including witnesses.

    I agreed to marry a girlfriend but a wedding ceremony didn't ever happen. Nor did a marriage license, legal documents with the state, etc.

    What defines marriage?
    All this spiritual/common law/whatever is fine as an idea to hold between two people. But they are not married unless they are legally married. I have never understood why people say - we have everything but the piece of paper or we have kids and a house and a life together so we are pretty much married. They're not. At all. If you feel like you are married and you want people to view you as such - get fucking married! Ugh
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #5
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Pagan rituals make marriages out of spirituality.. It is how I hope to be married one day. But as far as a legal marriage--this idea scares me.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I have never understood why people say - we have everything but the piece of paper or we have kids and a house and a life together so we are pretty much married.
    so nobody was ever married before marriage licensing became a staple of modern society? :p

  7. #7
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    so nobody was ever married before marriage licensing became a staple of modern society? :p
    Of course but that isn't applicable in today's world as you said yourself. What I mean is it's fine to have a spiritual connection, a spiritual feeling and approach to marriage but that's not a marriage. My issue lies with people who feel they are married and live like they are married but don't take the step to make it legal. If they are against any kind of legal union, why do they want to be recognized as married by others and treated as such?
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Of course but that isn't applicable in today's world as you said yourself. What I mean is it's fine to have a spiritual connection, a spiritual feeling and approach to marriage but that's not a marriage. My issue lies with people who feel they are married and live like they are married but don't take the step to make it legal. If they are against any kind of legal union, why do they want to be recognized as married by others and treated as such?
    because for a lot of people, semantics are an organic result of mental associations rather then strict definitions. so when they think of marriage, they think about the promises the couple made for each other, the start of a family together, the social treatment of them as a single unit, etc'. the last thing of their mind is the paperwork - the only mental associations most people have with the paperwork are when it comes to divorce and they would rather not think about that when they are married.

    for myself, after having lost my stepson even when their was legal marriage, i would never again even consider starting a family without marriage and/or adoption papers - not because i care about the definition but because the protection it grants me as a man regarding my rights for the child are way more important to me then the affect on the bank acount.

    but back then the blind trust was way too easy for me to even consider this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    because for a lot of people, semantics are an organic result of mental associations rather then strict definitions. so when they think of marriage, they think about the promises the couple made for each other, the start of a family together, the social treatment of them as a single unit, etc'. the last thing of their mind is the paperwork - the only mental associations most people have with the paperwork are when it comes to divorce and they would rather not think about that when they are married.
    Hmm. I would think when it come to the person you love and want to spend your life with, have a family, be a single unit, you would want all the legal means to do this with the least amount of outside interference. I have a hard time believing people don't really consider all that. Many can't wait to plan a wedding, some women plan for it before there is even a potential husband in the picture.

    stepson even when their was legal marriage, i would never again even consider starting a family without marriage and/or adoption papers - not because i care about the definition but because the protection it grants me as a man regarding my rights for the child are way more important to me then the affect on the bank acount.
    but back then the blind trust was way too easy for me to even consider this.
    I agree. My husband has had legal guardianship over my sons for as long as we have been married and it's one more reason we actually got married. They are 21 and 17 now so it's not so much of an issue but he's always been their father in all aspects of life. That's how we have seen it and wanted all legal protection to carry that out if need be. Wills, POA, everything. It was well worth the cost and time.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    @ceecee

    People who only consider marriage legitimate if the state has legally endorsed it are allowing their thinking beholden to external structures of approval. Society does make it difficult to function as a married couple without a license because of issues of medical insurance, next-of-kin rights in medical emergencies, retirement, etc. As long as society does not allow marriage as an equal inherent right to all its citizens, then the there is certainly no moral way the license is what defines it.

    A second issue is that the manner in which people define their most intimate, personal relationships should be respected and seen as protected inside their boundaries of personal space. To have the state define your relationship is a significant intrusion just as having the state define your sexuality, or other aspects of your personal space. People can define their marriages however fits their personal belief system. Thinking the state defines your personal relationships is to allow your personal space to be beholden to bureaucracy.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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