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  1. #21
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I wouldn't want much to change for us on the wedding day. I would want it to largely be a celebration of the relationship that we have built over time with one another, not an abrupt change in how we view one another.
    I feel the same way.

    Making it the turning point, as I've seen others do, has led to undue stress and expectations placed upon that day. "If we get married, everything is going to magically fix itself!! Forever!!"
    I know..I foresee the disaster coming on those couples..It's sad but it's avoidable.

    (Well, okay; we've already talked extensively about our plans after marriage. But you know what I mean. The point is that it's an evolving adventure.)
    That's so cool.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    It depends on the couple. But the basis of a marriage is trust bar none. Wherever you go, whoever you talk to, whatever you lose, you know that in a body, behind a set of eyes, is someone that understands you and wants to understand you. You know that any disagreement is simply that and you can respect their opinion and take heed to their counsel. They are a partner and friend in this adventure.
    @Thursday, you have some really heartfelt views my friend.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    I once heard someone ask if they were married but they said they hadn't gone through an actual marriage ceremony including witnesses.

    I agreed to marry a girlfriend but a wedding ceremony didn't ever happen. Nor did a marriage license, legal documents with the state, etc.

    What defines marriage?
    There is monogamus marriage; there is polygamus marriage; there is polyandrus marriage; and popular now is narcissistic marriage.

    Narcissistic marriage is marriage with no strings attached, no children, no inlaws, no State laws, no marriage contract and no divorce. It is the kind of marriage we have when we are not having any marriage.

    Narcissistic marriage is a marriage based entirely on feelings, the feelings of the moment. And we all know that feelings change into other feelings by their very nature. And who, who I ask, would want to intefer with our feelings, our sacred feelings?

  4. #24
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    Seems the Ps seem to care less about the legal aspect of a "marriage" or it's importance to the definition. We need more voices to gauge the differences here.

  5. #25
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    I once heard someone ask if they were married but they said they hadn't gone through an actual marriage ceremony including witnesses.

    I agreed to marry a girlfriend but a wedding ceremony didn't ever happen. Nor did a marriage license, legal documents with the state, etc.

    What defines marriage?
    Marriage in modern times is exclusively the domain of governments. It was not always this way, which is probably why you felt the need to differentiate between "spiritual" marriage and marriage. I'd like to see a trend towards a more organic type of marriage that does not require the approval of a church, government or any other authority beyond that of the individuals directly involved. It's natural for couples to desire long-term commitment, it is artificial for commitments to require government-stamped paperwork.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #26
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Marriage in modern times is exclusively the domain of governments. It was not always this way, which is probably why you felt the need to differentiate between "spiritual" marriage and marriage. I'd like to see a trend towards a more organic type of marriage that does not require the approval of a church, government or any other authority beyond that of the individuals directly involved. It's natural for couples to desire long-term commitment, it is artificial for commitments to require government-stamped paperwork.
    Yea the state can recognize a marriage as far as the letter of the law. It doesn't recognize marriage as people becoming something new..becoming something bigger than, something other than oneself. That domain is spiritual and perhaps metaphysical. A state can't own that. It's intensely private beyond reach.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    Yea the state can recognize a marriage as far as the letter of the law. It doesn't recognize marriage as people becoming something new..becoming something bigger than, something other than oneself. That domain is spiritual and perhaps metaphysical. A state can't own that. It's intensely private beyond reach.
    Yeah, this.

    In fact, I'm still mulling over whether marriage ought to be something that comes with legal rights and is legally sanctioned/recognized in the first place. It seems convenient legally, but it seems that we could simply define 'legal beneficiaries' instead--sort of like 'civil unions' but even more general. Waters would be less muddied, and issues such as 'legalized gay marriage' may very well just be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.

    I've never been married, so I don't have that experience to bring to it; there's probably a lot of legal stuff that I'm missing. Anyone have thoughts on that?

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Seems the Ps seem to care less about the legal aspect of a "marriage" or it's importance to the definition. We need more voices to gauge the differences here.
    Maybe. If I didn't put so much thought into this thread, I could simply state, "Marriage is when you go to the courthouse and you sign a paper. It's legal. There. /end thread, end of discussion, forever."

    I recognize that it's a legal thing and that marriage is defined as a legal binding between two people. I regard the legal binding to be important, but definitely not the most important aspect of a good, solid relationship.

    Then again, my ENFJ girlfriend and the ENFJ I quoted seem to feel similarly.

    If I had to tie this to type (which I really hate to do, but whatever), I'd regard 'legally defined marriage' as more of a Te deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Pagan rituals make marriages out of spirituality.. It is how I hope to be married one day. But as far as a legal marriage--this idea scares me.
    The girl's mother just rediscovered Catholicism, like, last week and thus wants us to get married in a Catholic church.

    Yeah, we're not doing that. I'd go the more pagan route.. seems like fun.

  8. #28
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    The girl's mother just rediscovered Catholicism, like, last week and thus wants us to get married in a Catholic church.

    Yeah, we're not doing that. I'd go the more pagan route.. seems like fun.
    I think people lose the spirit of Marriage. It should be about two people making themselves complete via one another.. However they are wed, parents and supporters should look fondly upon it. It makes me nervous to think about such things.. I think thats why the idea scares me so. I'd want to geek out about it, make it something fun and light-hearted, and do a private serious pagan-style ceremony in the eyes of the Gods. My parents would not approve of either of those methods, so I'm unsure of what to do. They like the serious traditional wedding.. but I just can't handle it. So much attention focused on me at once? I'd surely faint and not even enjoy my own day.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think people lose the spirit of Marriage. It should be about two people making themselves complete via one another.. However they are wed, parents and supporters should look fondly upon it. It makes me nervous to think about such things.. I think thats why the idea scares me so. I'd want to geek out about it, make it something fun and light-hearted, and do a private serious pagan-style ceremony in the eyes of the Gods. My parents would not approve of either of those methods, so I'm unsure of what to do. They like the serious traditional wedding.. but I just can't handle it. So much attention focused on me at once? I'd surely faint and not even enjoy my own day.
    That is dependent on how large they want it. Ultimately it is your union, and they don't really have much say or do on how you decide to proceed. You CAN oblige them in a sense; it's always easy to condense events and make them much more private, while maintaining the formal aspect. Sign some papers, then have a nice little semi-formal/formal dinner with the family invited.

    Personally, I despise weddings, and will not have a wedding ceremony( if I ever lose my mind and commit). I think they're a retarded way of wasting money that could be useful in ensuring a more stable start. All that sparkle, and all those people coming to "witness" the happiness between two people is unnecessary. Most of all, the whole thing is exhausting. I can't wait to escape when I'm there as a guest, I can't imagine how I'd feel as the bride. I'd probably run away.

    I also think "spiritual" marriages are also more of a no-duh to me. If you're with a person for longer than a few years, you most likely intend on staying and building a life with them, you're essentially committed. You don't plan on cheating, breaking up with them, or "falling out of love", because all these things can also happen in a marriage.

    I can't comprehend why an individual would stay with a person longer than 2 years, if they do not see them as being an integral part of their future. If you haven't figured out if this person is "commitment" worthy by the second year, you need to move on. So the concept of "spiritual weddings" are lost on me. It's either " we're in a committed relationship", which is fine, because in a sense, it is a marriage without a contract( your "spiritual marriage per se"), or "we're married"(legally), a marriage with a contract. There is no "spiritual marriage"; just sounds like an excuse to stay legally free so that if the relationship goes bunk, you don't have to deal with all the legal work; which also has it's pro's and cons, like marriage.

  10. #30
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    Marriage is a legal institution.

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