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  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    So he answered the question like a scientist should. I don't see the big deal here.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #22
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm also not sure whether 100% atheism is rationally viable. I mean, we can't really be sure of anything, so there's always a minute possibility that someone could be wrong about something that cannot be observed or experienced fully, correct? Perhaps atheism should be definied more like Dawkins -- slim possibility that someone is wrong, but the chances are very very slim to them. Agnosticism seems more like a concession that the odds are bigger and thus the answer more ambiguous?
    Great points.

    While I consider myself an atheist, I still work with a small chance that there could be a God. Which doesn't necessarily mean he granted me a spirit that's gonna live forever.
    Most people assume that ''if God does exist'':
    a) the Bible is right ;
    b) we have spirits with eternal life
    But it doesn't work that way for atheists. Recognizing there could be a creator is an unbound parameter. I think that's the basic difference. But I can't speak for Dawkins.
    Last edited by Rasofy; 02-28-2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: gram
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  3. #23
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    How does this make him not an atheist?

    He believes there is not a god. Therefore he's an atheist.

    You don't have to be 100% sure that something is true to believe it.

  4. #24
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    How does this make him not an atheist?

    He believes there is not a god. Therefore he's an atheist.

    You don't have to be 100% sure that something is true to believe it.
    I know, plus this is what he's always said. It's been his exact position for years. It's in his books and interviews.

    Whoever wrote the article either has never heard or read anything by or about Dawkins (outside of anti-Dawkins sources), or they have an agenda. I think the latter is more likely.
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  5. #25
    Junior Member Catoptric Cistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    While I consider myself an atheist, I still work with a small chance that there could be a God. Which doesn't necessarily mean he granted me with a spirit that's gonna live forever.
    Most people assume that ''if God does exist'':
    a) the Bible is right ;
    b) we have spirits with eternal life
    But it doesn't work that way for atheists. Recognizing there could be a creator is an unbound parameter. I think that's the basic difference. But I can't speak for Dawkins.
    Though undoubtedly many Christian would take the viewpoint that not believing in religion is anathema to believing in a spiritual afterlife, it is clearly not contiguous with the influences in the spread of religion in the West. Maybe their were influences from the East, though that's unlikely.

    You would be clear in stating however that people are largely influenced by their surroundings as to what is considered an acceptable viewpoint.

    I don't discount the possibility that the phenomenon of spirituality couldn't exists, and believe some fundamental principals of metaphysics haven't even come close to scratching the surface of it. Does this imply a God, and why do we search for one?

    Much of the concepts of religion seem to have parallels with our understandings of the human mind. Throughout ancient cultures we have integrated shamanistic states of mind and attempted to reach altered states of perception. Though I've never attempted anything of the like, it is clear that many ancient cultures have come upon the concept of DMT to verge onto the idea of a "one with the universe" type of perception. God is inherently a narcissistic projection of the human mind.

    Many of the elements of human consciousness could well expound on this discovery; many knowledges throughout the ages have been kept lock-and-key. Moses for example was an initiate into Egyptian occult teachings. For those that don't know the Egyptians had a profound understanding of the human mind, and many of the elements representing their beliefs were integrated with discoveries of natural phenomenon.

    If you look back into Ancient Romans and Greeks, their understandings of mechanical automata were rather impressive. They would devise ways to manipulate a physical object to make it appear to have a mind of it's own. People would deposit a coin as a donation; trickery alone implies conscious awareness, which implies understandings that belies the willingness for faith to exist. A creator of a concept or understanding used to manipulate others is more likely to impart their own desires and whims to control people.

    Many different elements I read into about the ancient world lead me to become something of an Atheist (and that I was kind of reserved and doubtful, Protestant from upbringing), though I am still entirely unsure how far back actual civilization goes and where some of these influences came from (Gobekli Tepe is a mystery as well as some underwater discoveries). Many aspects of construction could not have been achieved in the manner we understand to this day; many things are lost to our understanding. So if their were superior understandings do we interpret them as godlike? Are we are own gods, inferior to ourselves and do we derive satisfaction in projecting such desires to cope with the vastness of understandings? If we get a glimpse of perceptions that are considered life changing, does that then impart mystical properties that we cling to?

    I personally believe the sophistication of the ancient world was in some ways greater than the early part of the last century. Clearly for a period much in the way of knowledge sort of diminished and revived again. Though they couldn't explain a lot of things they probably knew on a subconscious level some aspects that were difficult to comprehend. It's likewise easy for anyone to scoff at the idea of a metaphysical existence; I was certainly one of them. Taking into consideration that many attempts to study a phenomenon as such would be fairly impossible, as it is largely an empirical study and without merit to consideration on a laboratory basis. I keep reminding myself however that their is proof and corroborating testimony I've gathered from looking into it (and I don't want to talk about it).

    Though I believe Dawkins has made some contributions to psychological awareness, many people will simply be averted by "talking head" media figures that would keep them in their bubble (I'm thinking of people like O'Reilly).

  6. #26
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    Yeah. If there really is a god, & you end up standing before him one day, you'd probably feel a bit stupid if you'd written books on earth saying you were 100% certain he didn't exist. He'd probably beat the shit out of you too. So yeah, leave that 0.2% out for yourself.
    Sounds like an unhealthy 3. And the god of Christianity sounds like an unhealthy 2 lol.
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  7. #27
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't believe it!
    Or maybe I do!

    ... oh bother.


    ^^ Agnosticism. This conditions afflicts many modern humans, leaving us confused about the nature of the world, or even feeling like it doesn't matter. Won't you please help? Send money, fast.

    EDIT:



    That sounds fair. I'm also not sure whether 100% atheism is rationally viable. I mean, we can't really be sure of anything, so there's always a minute possibility that someone could be wrong about something that cannot be observed or experienced fully, correct? Perhaps atheism should be definied more like Dawkins -- slim possibility that someone is wrong, but the chances are very very slim to them. Agnosticism seems more like a concession that the odds are bigger and thus the answer more ambiguous?
    That's why I started considering myself atheist. Everything could theoretically be proven wrong, if you think creatively enough about possibilities. So technically that would be agnostic. But agnosticism is often used to mean "hey there could be a god, or there could not, who knows?" which is not really my view at all.

    So yes, technically agnostic atheist, but nobody goes that far with the definitions in real life, so atheist it is...
    -end of thread-

  8. #28
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catoptric Cistula View Post
    Though undoubtedly many Christian would take the viewpoint that not believing in religion is anathema to believing in a spiritual afterlife, it is clearly not contiguous with the influences in the spread of religion in the West. Maybe their were influences from the East, though that's unlikely.

    You would be clear in stating however that people are largely influenced by their surroundings as to what is considered an acceptable viewpoint.

    I don't discount the possibility that the phenomenon of spirituality couldn't exists, and believe some fundamental principals of metaphysics haven't even come close to scratching the surface of it. Does this imply a God, and why do we search for one?

    Much of the concepts of religion seem to have parallels with our understandings of the human mind. Throughout ancient cultures we have integrated shamanistic states of mind and attempted to reach altered states of perception. Though I've never attempted anything of the like, it is clear that many ancient cultures have come upon the concept of DMT to verge onto the idea of a "one with the universe" type of perception. God is inherently a narcissistic projection of the human mind.

    Many of the elements of human consciousness could well expound on this discovery; many knowledges throughout the ages have been kept lock-and-key. Moses for example was an initiate into Egyptian occult teachings. For those that don't know the Egyptians had a profound understanding of the human mind, and many of the elements representing their beliefs were integrated with discoveries of natural phenomenon.

    If you look back into Ancient Romans and Greeks, their understandings of mechanical automata were rather impressive. They would devise ways to manipulate a physical object to make it appear to have a mind of it's own. People would deposit a coin as a donation; trickery alone implies conscious awareness, which implies understandings that belies the willingness for faith to exist. A creator of a concept or understanding used to manipulate others is more likely to impart their own desires and whims to control people.

    Many different elements I read into about the ancient world lead me to become something of an Atheist (and that I was kind of reserved and doubtful, Protestant from upbringing), though I am still entirely unsure how far back actual civilization goes and where some of these influences came from (Gobekli Tepe is a mystery as well as some underwater discoveries). Many aspects of construction could not have been achieved in the manner we understand to this day; many things are lost to our understanding. So if their were superior understandings do we interpret them as godlike? Are we are own gods, inferior to ourselves and do we derive satisfaction in projecting such desires to cope with the vastness of understandings? If we get a glimpse of perceptions that are considered life changing, does that then impart mystical properties that we cling to?

    I personally believe the sophistication of the ancient world was in some ways greater than the early part of the last century. Clearly for a period much in the way of knowledge sort of diminished and revived again. Though they couldn't explain a lot of things they probably knew on a subconscious level some aspects that were difficult to comprehend. It's likewise easy for anyone to scoff at the idea of a metaphysical existence; I was certainly one of them. Taking into consideration that many attempts to study a phenomenon as such would be fairly impossible, as it is largely an empirical study and without merit to consideration on a laboratory basis. I keep reminding myself however that their is proof and corroborating testimony I've gathered from looking into it (and I don't want to talk about it).

    Though I believe Dawkins has made some contributions to psychological awareness, many people will simply be averted by "talking head" media figures that would keep them in their bubble (I'm thinking of people like O'Reilly).
    The aztecs were also pretty evolved. Yet, they believed they had to make human sacrifices in order to keep the sun shining. The egyptians, by the way, believed pharaohs themselves were Gods. Just dig enough and any old civilization is gonna prove itself a pretty unreliable religious/spiritual/metaphysics reference.
    I don't ignore the fact that atheists can believe in the concept of spirit. Sadly, the popular atheist/theist division was derived from a pretty bad technique. Spiritual/non spiritual division would be much more revealing. I could be wrong, but I think pretty much every theist is spiritual. This way, once an atheist says ''there could be a God'', a lot of people automatically assume he is open to the possibility we have spirits - or even worse: that he believes everything those people believe could be right. The simple fact an atheist says ''there could be a creator'', doesn't mean much at all.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  9. #29
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    This isn't new. He's said for years he his doubts about God are about equal to his doubts about fairies or vampires, in that he can't prove they don't exist, but everything he thinks logically and the lack of evidence says they don't. He said as much on an old episode of Bill Maher maybe 3 or 4 years back.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  10. #30
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    This isn't new. He's said for years he his doubts about God are about equal to his doubts about fairies or vampires, in that he can't prove they don't exist, but everything logically and the lack of evidence in him says they don't. He said as much on an old episode of Bill Maher maybe 3 or 4 years back.
    Seriously.
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