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What's the point?

Lexicon

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You're right.

Why did those other cultures choose to pursue learning and/or honour instead of happiness?

Fulfillment seems more the ultimate goal, be it transient emotional states such as happiness, how one is looked upon heroically, or what wisdom they accumulate.
And I suppose pain and suffering are dimensions of any of these. Understanding, salvation, growth.

I've learned so far that, there is no universal 'supposed to.' All I know is that I am alive. And for how long, I can't be certain. I accept what I don't understand about this life, and hope answers can emerge in the future, hope that I develop the ability to recognize them if they do exist at all, but, more importantly, I try to learn from painful experiences, to give them meaning, to give myself the power to reconcile them, and move forward. Otherwise, I'd be spinning my wheels in place, digging a trench, rationalizing the intangible into oblivion, and eventually feeling nihilistic, perhaps hopeless. And all the while, until I snap out of it, all I've done is waste time. I can't be certain of much, but I am aware that precious time is limited. And that time belongs to me.
 

Lark

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I think about this sometimes, the more I find the atheistic and existentialist perspectives some what wanting in comparison with generations and generations of spiritual and imaginative perspective (Jung is the last in a long line of people to take that seriously).

I would say that there are two things which are important to me, after a lot of disillusionment and disappointment with different ideas or ideologies, its important to be the change that you would like to see in the world and it is important to prepare to meet your maker. Those, to me at the point in my life I'm at, seem like the two greatest tasks in life. That's mainly personal, although it links up with public or political or social scale issues too.

Its understandable that anyone would want to contribute to the world being a better place for their children than the one they have known and inherited, there are others who want to deliberately obstruct that goal and still others who dont know they are obstructing it, and it doesnt necessarily mean you're in favour of innovation or supposedly original and new development as that same betterment, sometimes those things impeed it. I also think its understandable that people dont want the world their children grow up in to be unrecognisably different from that which they themselves grew up in. The norms and expectations and values which permitted one generation to be happy I dont necessarily think future generations should be deprived of.
 

Elfa

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Even happiness is fleeting. And notice, while we are pursuing happiness, we are unhappy. So the very pursuit of happiness causes unhappiness.

"There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way."
 

Illmatic

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I don't see a point.

Some people are just lucky and some ain't. It's life. It's all based on timing and luck. Some people are bullied, some people are really popular. Some people just can't make friends while others get friends so easily etc. etc. etc.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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I was once asked by a member if I ever got depressed, because I always seem so happy. No, I'm not, and right now is one of those moments.

What's the point of it all? Life? Relationships? Before I go into some depressing, cynical rant, I want to hear other perspectives.

Here are a couple of quotes to consider:

"I don't believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive."
-Joseph Campbell

"Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
-Howard Thurman
 

tinker683

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Whether or not there is a "point" depends I suppose of whatever religious opinions you have and whatever value you assign to being alive. If you feel that your life has no value then you may wish to consult different philosophies and/or religions.

Ultimately I don't think there is anything I or anyone can say that will give you some sort of meaning. Ultimately it comes down to you and god/reality/the universe/whatever.

Do consider this: all the time you spending why you should be living...is time you could spend actually living
 

Lark

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Whether or not there is a "point" depends I suppose of whatever religious opinions you have and whatever value you assign to being alive. If you feel that your life has no value then you may wish to consult different philosophies and/or religions.

Ultimately I don't think there is anything I or anyone can say that will give you some sort of meaning. Ultimately it comes down to you and god/reality/the universe/whatever.

Do consider this: all the time you spending why you should be living...is time you could spend actually living

The unexamined life isnt worth living better to be Socrates unsatisfied than the satisfied pig.

I've seen so many lives ruined by directionless hedonism and reflection fails.
 

Mole

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The Point is Poetry

I am told poets creates religion, prophets abuse religion and priests do it to death. So I can only conclude that the point is poetry.

And interestingly, Wikileaks, Oz Branch, has reached the same conclusion is now hacking poetry and releasing it one poem at a time in the Arts and Entertainment forum, Wikileaks and Poetry thread.
 

miss fortune

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the point? you only have one life, as far as we know, so you might as well see as much of what life has to offer in that time period... the fact that some day I'll die and there'll STILL be tons of things that I don't know, have never see, tasted, heard, felt or smelled, places I haven't been, things I haven't tasted... that always saddens me a bit. From time to time, I'll admit that I occasionally believe that the world would be a happier place if I ceased to blight it with my presence and that in the grand scheme of things I'm nothing but a blip if even that, but then I remember that there's still plenty of things worth being interested in even if I'm not one of them... curiosity wins in the end :)
 

Winds of Thor

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I was once asked by a member if I ever got depressed, because I always seem so happy. No, I'm not, and right now is one of those moments.

That's terrible. It can seem like there's no meaning in some experiences.
 

ewomack

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The universe doesn't seem to have a point in the sense that something meaningful and intelligent, in an anthropomorphic sense, seems to pervade it. In short, the massive universe in which we're a mere speck doesn't seem to have a point. But "having a point" also seems like a human invention, something coming from our need to survive and prosper. A point in this sense, the merely human sense, can still exist. We can live our lives in a way that has meaning for us personally whether or not the universe itself has a point. We may of course one day discover that the universe does have a point, but the fact that it will take Voyager some 80,000 years to reach the nearest star (Alpha Centauri) at it's current speed doesn't bode well for humans conquering the universe anytime soon. But that doesn't mean we're pointless and it doesn't mean that life can't have meaning or purpose. It's the level that one looks for meaning that counts.
 

Vilku

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Some weeks ago I felt kinda empty thinking about the point of friendship. I still don't have a satisfactory answer, but I'm ok with that for now.

interesting!
some weeks ago, i too were contemplating the very same thing, and instead of looking what makes it pointless, you should look for what makes it pointful!

humans are capable of rationalizing ANYTHING.. this includes making everything pointless, or the very opposite which obviously gives you a better life.

those answers to friendhsips i found:
feelings, cultivate the mutual feelings, and mutual thoughts you share. (and constantly hunt for new ones. and create where there are none.)
make the thoughts flow and cause a domino effect affecting the whole of humanity through the acts of friendship.

i smile at a stranger, i know im causing a positive domino effect cause i do it genuinely and the receiver shows understanding (and gratitude) through their eyes.
small act, big consequences.
although it was unconscious unintended act of me, by choosing positive over negative outlook, your whole life changes for the better and that of many others.

the point of life: discover your natural abilities and cultivate them by giving a point for everything. (which means, find what you truly love about life and keep finding more from within and spread it out! for example, for istp's its often sport.)
you must learn to be generous to yourself if you are to stay that way to others.
and the other way, neither can maintain itself without the other.
(and this has nothing to do with ego. ego, is a fictional creature, a mere figment of imagination implanted by negative environment.)

and to what (as well as all the other things) i referred with natural abilities: empathy, without it we are unhappy psychopaths.

Even happiness is fleeting. And notice, while we are pursuing happiness, we are unhappy. So the very pursuit of happiness causes unhappiness.

i would like to point out, the problem is not pursuing happiness, but misunderstanding what happiness is.
many coroprates depend on manipulating this image of happiness.. so no wonder.

happiness itself is something which depends more on the society you live in than the individual.
albeit, on many cases damaging environments can open the eyes of those who decide to do so.
as such, gaining a far greater understanding of what all it takes.
and as sad as it is, it depends on changing the society.
cause we are a group specie.

individual growth has its limits, at some point that limit can be broken only by helping those of your clan/tribe grow.

the point? you only have one life, as far as we know, so you might as well see as much of what life has to offer in that time period... the fact that some day I'll die and there'll STILL be tons of things that I don't know, have never see, tasted, heard, felt or smelled, places I haven't been, things I haven't tasted... that always saddens me a bit.

well, i have a cure for you.
rationalize 5 senses into pointless repetition, and tadah, that repetition is utterly pointless thus it wouldnt matter if you didnt =)

and then rationalize something more complex as complex enough to satisfy you until you do the same thing with it too.

rinse and repeat, until your eather a) einstein or b) happy with what little yet endlessly complex machine you are.


i "wasted" my childhood on games, but it taught me that what they said is pointless, is exactly what they do their whole lives with but in other forms.

but with that ability to see how everything is repetition even if it has never happened, purified my ability to see life for what it really is.
life is repetition, choose to repeat simply or look for more complex repetitions, repetition anyways.
but with latter option, you eventually reach higher control over your life and thus your happiness.
 

miss fortune

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well, i have a cure for you.
rationalize 5 senses into pointless repetition, and tadah, that repetition is utterly pointless thus it wouldnt matter if you didnt =)

and then rationalize something more complex as complex enough to satisfy you until you do the same thing with it too.

rinse and repeat, until your eather a) einstein or b) happy with what little yet endlessly complex machine you are.


i "wasted" my childhood on games, but it taught me that what they said is pointless, is exactly what they do their whole lives with but in other forms.

but with that ability to see how everything is repetition even if it has never happened, purified my ability to see life for what it really is.
life is repetition, choose to repeat simply or look for more complex repetitions, repetition anyways.
but with latter option, you eventually reach higher control over your life and thus your happiness.

I wasn't asking for a "cure"... I'm perfectly content enjoying the world around me... why would I want to stop? :huh:

(aka your post makes no sense in the context of this article OR to my philosophy towards living... if you want to not enjoy living go on with your unenjoyment, but I'm going to stick with the thrill of every day :wubbie:)
 

Munchies

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Or why not mourn your loss of a point?

that's pointless. The whole point is to find a good thing to point at. The point is beyond greed. and probably has something to do with collective conciousness evolution
 

KDude

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The unexamined life isnt worth living better to be Socrates unsatisfied than the satisfied pig.

I've seen so many lives ruined by directionless hedonism and reflection fails.

You know, you can reflect within the act of experience and just going about your day. It's not like they have to be two seperate things. Reflection is mobile, not just detached. Sometimes the only way to learn about life is to engage it, act, and just enjoy things as they are. I don't know the meaning of life, but I know you're not meant to be on the defensive all the time.

There are hedonistic types who are very un-curious though. I'll definitely give you that.
 

Lark

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You know, you can reflect within the act of experience and just going about your day. It's not like they have to be two seperate things. Reflection is mobile, not just detached. Sometimes the only way to learn about life is to engage it, act, and just enjoy things as they are. I don't know the meaning of life, but I know you're not meant to be on the defensive all the time.

There are hedonistic types who are very un-curious though. I'll definitely give you that.

I wouldnt say the opposite of hedonism is being defensive.

There is reflection on action and reflection in action, the most malignant hedonism doesnt really involve either to be honest.
 

Vilku

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I wasn't asking for a "cure"... I'm perfectly content enjoying the world around me... why would I want to stop? :huh:

(aka your post makes no sense in the context of this article OR to my philosophy towards living... if you want to not enjoy living go on with your unenjoyment, but I'm going to stick with the thrill of every day :wubbie:)

well, it was a bit of a joke.
ok, maybe just half of it.
fine, fourth of it.

or more precisely, an intuitive point of view on sensory enjoyment being utterly boring =)

well, im going with my intuitive enjoyment and you go with sensory, good luck!

but overall point being: intuitives get depressed if we try to find point to life from sensory enjoyment.

i hated eating food for what, 17, 18 years?
until i learned to ignore food by watching documentaries when i eat.
fine, i still hate it but it doesnt make me throw up out of disgust any more.

call that enjoyment... well,you have to make everything into sensory enjoyment when i need an intuitive reason in order to enjoy anything.
 

KDude

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well, it was a bit of a joke.
ok, maybe just half of it.
fine, fourth of it.

or more precisely, an intuitive point of view on sensory enjoyment being utterly boring =)

well, im going with my intuitive enjoyment and you go with sensory, good luck!

but overall point being: intuitives get depressed if we try to find point to life from sensory enjoyment.

i hated eating food for what, 17, 18 years?
until i learned to ignore food by watching documentaries when i eat.
fine, i still hate it but it doesnt make me throw up out of disgust any more.

call that enjoyment... well,you have to make everything into sensory enjoyment when i need an intuitive reason in order to enjoy anything.

I *think* I'm a sensor, but I'm not all that crazy about food myself. It's cool, but I don't really consciously dwell on it. It's nice when it's there. Sensory enjoyment could be a variety of things though. Like laying in a comfortable couch with my headphones blaring. Floating on my back in a pool, on a hot day, thinking about nothing in particular. If any of that depresses intuitives, then they are the biggest whiners ever. There are so many better reasons to be depressed.
 

Vilku

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I *think* I'm a sensor, but I'm not all that crazy about food myself. It's cool, but I don't really consciously dwell on it. It's nice when it's there. Sensory enjoyment could be a variety of things though. Like laying in a comfortable couch with my headphones blaring. Floating on my back in a pool, on a hot day, thinking about nothing in particular. If any of that depresses intuitives, then they are the biggest whiners ever. There are so many better reasons to be depressed.

how would you fare in a world where 75% were intuitives?
thats the situiation we ake our whole lives with, and its _not_ easy.

imagine instead of in schools you were taught, they would simply demand you to learn everything by yourself from one paragraph, the ideal intuitive school.
where they wouldnt even tell you what to learn, they would simply say, go, learn whatever you want and ill read your thoughts after the year to see what youve learned. (instead of some bs test.)

you have nay idea what it does to a person to live in a world which was _not_ made for them to live at?
thats right, you dont, thus you shouldnt criticize what you know not.

EDIT:
and the best part, when you know eactly how you learn, the sensors think you need to learn how to clean your house and thus put you to study cleaning for one year, while in real you just couldnt care less about something you could learn by imaginating in your head instead of destroying your bones by risking to learn by doing.
 
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