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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Default evolutionary cause for believing in god

    First of all its a mixture of two things:

    We have strong need to understand the things we dont understand, this is because it has been essential to our survival. Lets say you are some early human living in a forrest, and you hear some branch on a ground making a cracking sound. Now your life depends on whether you can make an fast intuitive assumption(which you trust) that it might be a predator stalking you and stepped on something, because its too late after it attacks you. But this sort of intuition is evident in animals also, so this alone doesent make us to believe in god.

    What the development to atart believing in god also reguired was us to start pondering on larger scale unknown things. As we started to get more able on pondering larger things we also got more able to make bigger intuitive leaps in our cognition. Now that we had eliminated large part of our enemies, we could start thinking about things in more depth and start thinking about things that werent so essential to our survival. "I created this spear from that tree which helps me on hunting, but who created that shiny thing on the sky that helps us to stay warm and gives us light to see properly, why is it going away some times, there must be someone bigger than us moving it" etc etc

    Thus man created god in his image.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Snoopy22's Avatar
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    In Josephus Antiquities of the Jews he says of Abram that “He was a person of great sagacity, both for understanding all things and persuading his hearers, and not mistaken in his opinions; for which reason he began to have higher notions of virtue than others had, and he determined to renew and to change the opinion all men happened then to have concerning God; for he was the first that ventured to publish this notion, That there was but one God, the Creator of the universe; and that, as to other [gods], if they contributed any thing to the happiness of men, that each of them afforded it only according to his appointment, and not by their own power. This his opinion was derived from the irregular phenomena that were visible both at land and sea, as well as those that happen to the sun, and moon, and all the heavenly bodies, thus: - "If [said he] these bodies had power of their own, they would certainly take care of their own regular motions; but since they do not preserve such regularity, they make it plain, that in so far as they co-operate to our advantage, they do it not of their own abilities, but as they are subservient to Him that commands them, to whom alone we ought justly to offer our honor and thanksgiving."

    From that I understand that Abraham decided that due to the complexity of the universe their must be a greater power involved then man. Allowing God to make himself known.

    Unless you’re talking about Ruin Construction/Gap Theory (Your question is difficult to understand).

  3. #3
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Some fascinating information at the obvious place

    Beginning of human religion

    When I imagine it, I see spiritual ideas having a positive effect on early cultures (which were probably nomadic, hunter-gatherer, small). In my backwards prophecies I see it orienting them toward some precise, sensible hidden realm of power & value. I imagine it was as cultures became settled & increasingly large, increasingly complicated in social arrangement, that religion became more pernicious with stuff like human sacrifice, orders of hierarchy, angry, king-like gods, etc. Civilizations make everything about power.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  4. #4
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    I think before we delve into this issue, we need to define and agree what religion is, exactly.


    How about this for a definition of religion: man's attempt to become like God by telling good from evil. Every religion has this nature to it... a system that defines good and evil which results in a higher deistic status for a person.

    Hinduism, for instance, claims elevation to god through transcendent realities
    Islam claims elevation through morose morality and reverent sacrifice.
    Buddhism, similar to Hinduism claims elevation through peace and meditative states.

    These major world religions and many others have one thing in common: faith has no personal element of trust to it and thus is only developed solely by each person's efforts, it's centered around each person and their "journey" to being their own god, hence, man's attempt to be like God by determining good from evil from a standpoint that is self-sourced. In other words, they are man-made, like you say, gods.



    Christianity is entirely different from this and is not a world religion. In light of the real GodThe ultimate focus is around the real God. Since you are unbelieving, I'll explain with your disbelief in mind: we can discern this is the real God because considering a few factors, our intuition will agree that the real God is so.

    The real God is all powerful. Since the real God created everything, He is an absolute benefactor. While the real God is alive, other gods are 'dead' (i.e. man-made) and in the sense of being an absolute benefactor, God gave us everything... His image and His life, and everything that was put into creation. He doesn't need anything from us, He made us to reflect Him and all creation to bring glory to Himself. Other religions cost you something. Christianity costs God everything (Jesus Christ) and all personal effort is put forth in light of God as the initiator of faith. This is somewhat mysterious, but simply speaking it's God who brings a person to Himself, and being glorious, brings individuals to glory by bringing them to Himself. (World religion is not like this, because they are made up by people who don't know the real God, the ultimate purpose is always personal glorification through self effort, i.e. which bears resemblance to the delusion that a person can become god through knowing right from wrong).

    This brings us to our second point, Christianity is not deluded about the personal, relational nature of people. Through obedience to the Holy Spirit, it's supernaturally connected and organized. Because God is real and knows each person, through divine grace He saves the elect (this is also a great mystery). It's not a bunch of people banded together in loose, religious agreement (there are churches like this and they usually end up failing) because it's not ultimately motivated by a self-sourced determination of right and wrong. That is man-made religion and organization for you and such world religions will continue until the fallen generation of humanity comes to an end. Christianity, on the other hand, despite widespread rejection, opposition, and persecution, grows and flourishes, seemingly on it's own (that is if you look at it the same as world religions). It's an active, dynamic, life-giving relationship to a real, living God, offered to each person fairly based not on what that person has done, but what God has done and freely offers that person to take. (see: God is an absolute benefactor)

    Lastly, Christianity exposes the source of world religion in the first few chapters of the Bible (that is where the deflation of religion in the second sentence of this post is from). World religions somehow seem to suggest that they're all compatible with each other because, again, it's based on a self-sourced effort to determine good from evil, and if one world religion denies this of another, they would have to themselves deny the same imaginary liberty or else feel like a hipocrit. Christianity clearly states there is only 1 real God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the living God who created all things, and in the flesh, Jesus Christ. Because salvation (and the authoring of faith) belongs to Jesus the Lord, there is no confusion about personal liberties or religious disagreements, Christians are simply told to obey and trust. World religions are unable to reconcile this way because they are fabrications and fabrications always fall apart eventually, they exist only as far a person believes the original lie.

  5. #5
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    ^

    Dude ...

    You should stop posting.

    You have either no idea what you are talking about, or you have and still say it, which would be even worse. The former would speak against your willingness to at least acknowledge some very basic facts, the latter against character.

    I seriously hope you're just trolling.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  6. #6
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^He's just brainwashed. You can tell by the phrasing.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    We have strong need to understand the things we dont understand, this is because it has been essential to our survival.
    I see where you are coming from but I think you fail to make the argument.

    Belief in gods has its origins in superstition, which, as you suggest, has its basis in the inability of primitive man to adequately comprehend cause and effect in the natural world.
    However, this does not explain his compulsion to understand such matters. It does not explain why a man's reach exceeds his grasp. In fact, when the compulsion is particularly obsessive, it can be detrimental to mental health / survival.
    No other animal commits suicide, because no other animal can contemplate its own non-existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy22 View Post
    From that I understand that Abraham decided that due to the complexity of the universe their must be a greater power involved then man. Allowing God to make himself known.

    Unless you’re talking about Ruin Construction/Gap Theory (Your question is difficult to understand).
    Yes this is what i said on the second part and this happened because of the first part.

    I dont know what ruin construction or gap theory is, but there was no question at op.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    Some fascinating information at the obvious place

    Beginning of human religion

    When I imagine it, I see spiritual ideas having a positive effect on early cultures (which were probably nomadic, hunter-gatherer, small). In my backwards prophecies I see it orienting them toward some precise, sensible hidden realm of power & value. I imagine it was as cultures became settled & increasingly large, increasingly complicated in social arrangement, that religion became more pernicious with stuff like human sacrifice, orders of hierarchy, angry, king-like gods, etc. Civilizations make everything about power.
    I have read some of those years ago, and after skimming through that again it was all about what the second part of the post is. The first part i heard from ted or somewhere similar.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #9
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ^He's just brainwashed. You can tell by the phrasing.

    I see where you are coming from but I think you fail to make the argument.

    Belief in gods has its origins in superstition, which, as you suggest, has its basis in the inability of primitive man to adequately comprehend cause and effect in the natural world.
    However, this does not explain his compulsion to understand such matters. It does not explain why a man's reach exceeds his grasp. In fact, when the compulsion is particularly obsessive, it can be detrimental to mental health / survival.
    No other animal commits suicide, because no other animal can contemplate its own non-existence.
    You say that belief in god has origins from superstition, well yes ofc, belief in god is an evolved form of superstition.

    But what i was talking about in the first part was where this superstition came from.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #10
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I have read some of those years ago, and after skimming through that again it was all about what the second part of the post is. The first part i heard from ted or somewhere similar.
    What?

    who's Ted?
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

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