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  1. #11

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    I dont think this thread poses any question or is any 'foil' to a discussion since the OP was just an athiest rationalisation.

    It is simply an athiest 'random thought'.

    Although the post about Josephus was interesting, it certainly would suggest that the earliest monotheism was a logical deduction from the evidently/objectively spontaneously ordered cosmos.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    What?

    who's Ted?
    How can someone not know this?
    http://www.ted.com/
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #13
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    How can someone not know this?
    http://www.ted.com/
    lol, I'm an INFP, all I care about is music &.... avoiding slitting my wrists in existential despair. heheh. thanks for the link though.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    You say that belief in god has origins from superstition, well yes ofc, belief in god is an evolved form of superstition.

    But what i was talking about in the first part was where this superstition came from.
    Its not superstition but logical deduction from immediate evidence that belief in God originated from.

    It has been rationalised as superstition by those professing a seperate series of beliefs.

    Now its possible to argue that beliefs, including beliefs in God, are derivative from psychologically useful illusions, corresponding to knowledge that people dont cease to be once they have left the room, for instance, or from early inability to differentiate objectively between the extraordinary of content of dreams which would jeopardise life, ie lambs lying down with lions, and survival perogatives but they are all going to seem like rationalisations whatever way you present it.

  5. #15

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    Ted is not Lark.

    Trust only Lark.

  6. #16

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    I dont think redemption song or whatever they are called are trolling, they're just coming from the alpha course or some similar evangelical school of thought, there was another poster like that here for a while who sent me a link explaining why they thought the protestant ascendency was a good thing, I'm talking in its consequence or anything I mean theologies of luther and calvin stuff.

    Personally I think those sorts of filters, or their athiest opposites, arent going to make for much discussion. Its just regurgitation of other material.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    I think before we delve into this issue, we need to define and agree what religion is, exactly.

    How about this for a definition of religion: man's attempt to become like God by telling good from evil. Every religion has this nature to it... a system that defines good and evil which results in a higher deistic status for a person.

    Hinduism, for instance, claims elevation to god through transcendent realities
    Islam claims elevation through morose morality and reverent sacrifice.
    Buddhism, similar to Hinduism claims elevation through peace and meditative states.

    These major world religions and many others have one thing in common: faith has no personal element of trust to it and thus is only developed solely by each person's efforts, it's centered around each person and their "journey" to being their own god, hence, man's attempt to be like God by determining good from evil from a standpoint that is self-sourced. In other words, they are man-made, like you say, gods.

    Christianity is entirely different from this and is not a world religion. In light of the real GodThe ultimate focus is around the real God. Since you are unbelieving, I'll explain with your disbelief in mind: we can discern this is the real God because considering a few factors, our intuition will agree that the real God is so.

    The real God is all powerful. Since the real God created everything, He is an absolute benefactor. While the real God is alive, other gods are 'dead' (i.e. man-made) and in the sense of being an absolute benefactor, God gave us everything... His image and His life, and everything that was put into creation. He doesn't need anything from us, He made us to reflect Him and all creation to bring glory to Himself. Other religions cost you something. Christianity costs God everything (Jesus Christ) and all personal effort is put forth in light of God as the initiator of faith. This is somewhat mysterious, but simply speaking it's God who brings a person to Himself, and being glorious, brings individuals to glory by bringing them to Himself. (World religion is not like this, because they are made up by people who don't know the real God, the ultimate purpose is always personal glorification through self effort, i.e. which bears resemblance to the delusion that a person can become god through knowing right from wrong).

    This brings us to our second point, Christianity is not deluded about the personal, relational nature of people. Through obedience to the Holy Spirit, it's supernaturally connected and organized. Because God is real and knows each person, through divine grace He saves the elect (this is also a great mystery). It's not a bunch of people banded together in loose, religious agreement (there are churches like this and they usually end up failing) because it's not ultimately motivated by a self-sourced determination of right and wrong. That is man-made religion and organization for you and such world religions will continue until the fallen generation of humanity comes to an end. Christianity, on the other hand, despite widespread rejection, opposition, and persecution, grows and flourishes, seemingly on it's own (that is if you look at it the same as world religions). It's an active, dynamic, life-giving relationship to a real, living God, offered to each person fairly based not on what that person has done, but what God has done and freely offers that person to take. (see: God is an absolute benefactor)

    Lastly, Christianity exposes the source of world religion in the first few chapters of the Bible (that is where the deflation of religion in the second sentence of this post is from). World religions somehow seem to suggest that they're all compatible with each other because, again, it's based on a self-sourced effort to determine good from evil, and if one world religion denies this of another, they would have to themselves deny the same imaginary liberty or else feel like a hypocrite. Christianity clearly states there is only 1 real God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the living God who created all things, and in the flesh, Jesus Christ. Because salvation (and the authoring of faith) belongs to Jesus the Lord, there is no confusion about personal liberties or religious disagreements, Christians are simply told to obey and trust. World religions are unable to reconcile this way because they are fabrications and fabrications always fall apart eventually, they exist only as far a person believes the original lie.
    You know your stuff! Did you go to Bible college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    ^Dude ...

    You should stop posting.

    You have either no idea what you are talking about, or you have and still say it, which would be even worse. The former would speak against your willingness to at least acknowledge some very basic facts, the latter against character.

    I seriously hope you're just trolling.
    Funny, EvidenceofRedemption *does* know what [s]he's talking about. My sis went to Bible College and often helps me out with some of this. My sis approves 100% with what EvidenceofRedemption is writing. In fact, EvidenceofRedemption is so on target, [s]he appears to accurately understand the Bible more than anyone we've ever seen on this website to date.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ^He's just brainwashed. You can tell by the phrasing.

    I see where you are coming from but I think you fail to make the argument.

    Belief in gods has its origins in superstition, which, as you suggest, has its basis in the inability of primitive man to adequately comprehend cause and effect in the natural world.
    However, this does not explain his compulsion to understand such matters. It does not explain why a man's reach exceeds his grasp. In fact, when the compulsion is particularly obsessive, it can be detrimental to mental health / survival.
    No other animal commits suicide, because no other animal can contemplate its own non-existence.
    It's clear that you are not here to gain understanding. You are here to be heard and pass judgment. Your mouth spouts folly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think redemption song or whatever they are called are trolling,
    EvidenceofRedemption is 100% scripturally correct in the posts I've seen, and appears to be spiritually mature.

    ---------
    @EvidenceOfRedemption: There's no point in arguing with those that lack wisdom because they despise it, as they are right in their own eyes of understanding, (Proverbs 1:7), (Proverbs 10:21-22), (Proverbs 12:15), (Proverbs 14:8-9), (Proverbs 23:9).

    (Proverbs 1:7) Fearing the Lord is the beginning of moral knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    (Proverbs 14:8) The wisdom of the shrewd person is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deception. 9 Fools mock at reparation, but among the upright there is favor.

    (Proverbs 15:2) The tongue of the wise treats knowledge correctly, but the mouth of the fool spouts out folly.

  8. #18
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    God used evolution as a tool to create life.

  9. #19

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    I dont think that the modern narcissistic notion that man is the centre of all things would have made sense to the psychological profile and cultural ferment which lead to emergence of world religions. Not for a moment.

    In the past, even up to and during the advent of the period of time described as the enlightenment there was still the supposition and understanding that there were objective external forces, laws and an order besides mankind's perception of it and it is from that basic principle which reason would indicate that God is not an invention of mankind's mind.

    Now that is by reason alone, which is not how people perceived God, the entire contemporaneous social order and convention makes it all but impossible to experience or know God. Pyschologists and social theorists have indicated that "God" is virtually abscent from the modern mind as the brain has been rewired, some are hopeful and suggest that a more empathic order is eventually going to emerge, I think that's just a really optimistic pseudo-marxist hope because I've seen the neurological studies which suggest that screen time vs. face time has resulted in children failing to develop correctly and character and personality disorders becoming more widespread.

    Most of the harsher disciplines which are involved in some of the world religions are really a return to the conditions which existed before the present day.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    You know your stuff! Did you go to Bible college?


    Funny, EvidenceofRedemption *does* know what [s]he's talking about. My sis went to Bible College and often helps me out with some of this. My sis approves 100% with what EvidenceofRedemption is writing. In fact, EvidenceofRedemption is so on target, [s]he appears to accurately understand the Bible more than anyone we've ever seen on this website to date.


    It's clear that you are not here to gain understanding. You are here to be heard and pass judgment. Your mouth spouts folly.


    EvidenceofRedemption is 100% scripturally correct in the posts I've seen, and appears to be spiritually mature.

    ---------
    @EvidenceOfRedemption: There's no point in arguing with those that lack wisdom because they despise it, as they are right in their own eyes of understanding, (Proverbs 1:7), (Proverbs 10:21-22), (Proverbs 12:15), (Proverbs 14:8-9), (Proverbs 23:9).

    (Proverbs 1:7) Fearing the Lord is the beginning of moral knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    (Proverbs 14:8) The wisdom of the shrewd person is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deception. 9 Fools mock at reparation, but among the upright there is favor.

    (Proverbs 15:2) The tongue of the wise treats knowledge correctly, but the mouth of the fool spouts out folly.
    I dont know about maturity and I dont care for scriptural literalism, I think its heretical and just plain wrong, the mark of a dead religion but I know we are in different schools of thought there and there's as big a gulf between us on that point as between heaven and hell.

    I dont think evidence of redemption is trolling though, I think they're sincere enough but I dont think they are right.

    Trolls are just idiots who like to create misery and mayhem, I dont think that's redemptions intention.

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