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Thread: Original sin?

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Original sin?

    Does anyone believe in or think about the idea of original sin? I've not heard it talked about much at all lately, although I did hear a presenter on a radio show lately talk about losing his roman catholic faith and how he embraced humanism, he didnt think he was sure if he could call it humanism but he said that he did think that the idea of original sin was so absurd as to make him question the whole subject of faith and belief.

    I dont know much about the idea in its origin, it was decided by the church from scripture? It is an RC thing? I know it was associated with the importance of baptism and sacramentalism and the reformation sought to break that, although was it reinvented by the schismatic and protestant christians with theories of predestination and election?

    I remember seeing Robert Crumb (is it Robert or Richard, cant recall) cartoons about sin, in the form of a milk bottle which turns black and is turned white again by confessions, it was simplistic but I think it was biographical and a proper depiction of his understanding at the time.

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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    IT stems from the Bible's account of the Fall of Adam, and afterwards, scripture's testimony that "There is none who does good. Every one of them has together become corrupt. There is none who does good; no, not one!" (Psalms 53:1-3, Romans 3:10ff) "the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? (17:9) "There is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin". (Ecclesiastes 7:20).
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    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
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    There is a film called Original Sin with Angelina Jolie and Antonio Banderas. Angelina is hot in it. I realise you want something a bit deeper but I just thought I would throw that in there.
    Likes Hawthorne liked this post

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    people with the origional sin owned the bible before us so i can't beleive it. I can't trust a sinner with the word of god, it's only the word of a sinner
    1+1=3 OMFG

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    No, I don't. It's one of the bigger reasons that I couldn't be Christian when I attempted to be Christian for family harmony reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    No, I don't. It's one of the bigger reasons that I couldn't be Christian when I attempted to be Christian for family harmony reasons.
    I have to read more about this to be honest but what I would say is that not believing this, and I dont as I've encountered it to date, I dont believe prevents me being a Christian. Although there are modern and older doctrines I dont accept which believing it invalidates my membership of the "club", maybe others would disagree but its not going to phase me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    No, I don't. It's one of the bigger reasons that I couldn't be Christian when I attempted to be Christian for family harmony reasons.
    This made me smile.

    So did this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I have to read more about this to be honest but what I would say is that not believing this, and I dont as I've encountered it to date, I dont believe prevents me being a Christian. Although there are modern and older doctrines I dont accept which believing it invalidates my membership of the "club", maybe others would disagree but its not going to phase me.
    I suppose you could do everything a Christian does and not believe this, I'm not sure. But, the whole expression of Christianity is very strongly rooted in original sin. The wretchedness of the sinner and the helpless need of redemption. The urgency of the need for those to be rescued from their flawed selves before they are lost to Hell. The taught inclination to deny one's own flawed and sinful instincts.

    @Salomé Yup, that's it.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I suppose you could do everything a Christian does and not believe this, I'm not sure. But, the whole expression of Christianity is very strongly rooted in original sin. The wretchedness of the sinner and the helpless need of redemption. The urgency of the need for those to be rescued from their flawed selves before they are lost to Hell. The taught inclination to deny one's own flawed and sinful instincts.

    @Salomé Yup, that's it.
    I have heard it articulated that way, although its not how I have experienced it in my own household as conveyed by my parents, as they've lived it or spoken about it and having relied on the gospels and reading about the life and ministry of Jesus more than anything else perhaps those other versions of Christianity have been more in tune with others experience than mine.

    It is hard to explain but I do have a relationship with God and prayer which predates much of the talk about the primacy of a relationship and "life with God" being important, so this worldly or temporal concerns about doctrine and rules are not so troubling to me, for someone who has asserted the importance of tradition and transmitting it between generations this sounds like so much contradiction I'm sure but such is life I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I suppose you could do everything a Christian does and not believe this, I'm not sure. But, the whole expression of Christianity is very strongly rooted in original sin. The wretchedness of the sinner and the helpless need of redemption. The urgency of the need for those to be rescued from their flawed selves before they are lost to Hell. The taught inclination to deny one's own flawed and sinful instincts.
    Yup. It's almost like people HAVE to be vile, corrupt pieces of slime... or otherwise they wouldn't "need" God, and thus people wouldn't "have" to believe in that particular faith in question (in this case, Christianity). It's such a binary extreme, either/or. It confuses me as to how people can think that they can view human beings as pieces of garbage by nature and then turn around and love them; it's part of the reason people have so much trouble loving people they have decided to be vile sinners, that struggle would not exist if they didn't feel the need to dismiss everything about someone just because they disagree on whether a particular behavior is moral or not.

    The reality to me, is that people do have a strong drive for survival and self-interest, like every other organism on the planet; however, as we grow and mature, we can learn to set that aside or prioritize something else, developing the capacity for self-sacrifice... we learn to place our values (and thus sometimes others) ahead of our own physical survival or other forms of well-being, serving something besides base instincts. But that doesn't seem to be what original sin is talking about, which is saying that because of one person's sin, suddenly every descendent automatically is corrupt; while we may all be human and thus reflective of other people, there's really no cause/effect chain in motion.

    It really just seems to be a doctrine existing to justify everyone's need to convert to the religion in question.
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