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Thread: Original sin?

  1. #71
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'd argue that although technically this is true, the amount of people who presume that submission is a sign of a lack of equality far exceeds anyone who presumes submissive qualities to be on par with less-submissive ones. The two are no longer defined as being capable of linking together..

    When you ask people how they would describe Jesus, I doubt you'll find many to reply with "submissive" with a tone of inspiration, although that may very well be one of his greatest qualities.
    Jesus preached submission to God, that did not make him submissive. In fact, he was a highly subversive Jew.
    The Trinity is an invention of the Catholic church, entirely inconsistent with early Christian doctrine. Jesus did not see himself as equal to God. If he had, much of his teaching would have been utterly nonsensical. Whereas, in fact, much of it was common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater
    "The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason."
    G. K. Chesterton
    There's another dude who thought he could just redefine terms to suit himself. I figured you'd like him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #72
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Ok but then lets assume for a moment that mankind was actually able to learn from its mistakes.
    Without a higher law what's your basis for saying it was a mistake in the first place? In a materialist atheistic world there are no mistakes only what is. Mistakes are just notions produced by chemical reactions in the brains of homosapiens.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    And it would from the nazi regime and the things that happened at the Nürnberg trials derive ethics and a morale that is congruent with the ones of religion. Why do I need to believe in God then ?
    Why do I believe I need a foundation for my house when the bedroom doors open and close just fine?
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #73
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Why do I believe I need a foundation for my house when the bedroom doors open and close just fine?
    I didnt want to say that in the sense of "well if things do work, its not important why they do". So I didnt meant to sound ignorant. I meant, if I was to live my life according to christian values, which I do (at least to the ones of Protestants), why do I then need to believe in God or need to out myself as a religious person to be accepted as a moralistic and ethical person. Cant I just be that person without believing into a higher physical being ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #74
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I didnt want to say that in the sense of "well if things do work, its not important why they do". So I didnt meant to sound ignorant. I meant, if I was to live my life according to christian values, which I do (at least to the ones of Protestants), why do I then need to believe in God or need to out myself as a religious person to be accepted as a moralistic and ethical person. Cant I just be that person without believing into a higher physical being ?
    Sure, as long as you don't judge other people... including hitler. But, I don't think that's feasably possible so you're bound to be logically inconsistent. The basis of your adherence to these ethics is that they "work" for you. Which is fine, but without believing in God the minute you say someone shouldn't do this or that you're presuming you know what works best for them. But, all you know is yourself and you have no access to a moral authority higher than yourself to be able to righteously judge the acts of the other person. Without God any judgement of another person is purely based on your desire to exert your will and your personal preferences onto the other person.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    ...but without believing in God the minute you say someone shouldn't do this or that you're presuming you know what works best for them. But, all you know is yourself and you have no access to a moral authority higher than yourself to be able to righteously judge the acts of the other person.
    That is the only moral authority any of us has access to.

    With or Without God any judgement in action of another person is purely based on your desire to exert your will and your personal preferences onto the other person.
    Fixed.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #76
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    @EvidenceOfRedemption also tried to explain it. Grace is one of this things that without the Holy Spirit, you won't understand it. It's a spiritual phenomenon.

    Once you have the Holy Spirit the Bible sort of comes alive and lights up. It all suddenly makes sense. There are no more contradictions, and no more confusion. That is my experience..
    That reads like the definition of psychosis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #77
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Sure, as long as you don't judge other people... including hitler. But, I don't think that's feasably possible so you're bound to be logically inconsistent. The basis of your adherence to these ethics is that they "work" for you. Which is fine, but without believing in God the minute you say someone shouldn't do this or that you're presuming you know what works best for them. But, all you know is yourself and you have no access to a moral authority higher than yourself to be able to righteously judge the acts of the other person. Without God any judgement of another person is purely based on your desire to exert your will and your personal preferences onto the other person.
    The basis of adherence of myself is hate against myself. I have choosen that I judge Hitler and I will choose that until you make me die
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #78
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That reads like the definition of psychosis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Yes.
    "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Once you have the Holy Spirit, the Bible sort of comes alive and lights up. It all suddenly makes sense. There are no more contradictions, and no more confusions. That is my experience..
    I think the 'it just feels right' corner is your well-worn niche. I experience this sensation too, but I never just settle for it without asking myself why. If we all based our convictions on what just felt good, we'd all be Caligula reborn.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #80
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    You Christian types need to get yourselves some better representation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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