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Thread: Original sin?

  1. #131
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Ok, one last thing. I think it's ironic that through this whole exchange I've used the word term "logically inconsistent" and yet it's the atheist that's lobbing the morally charged word, "hypocrite".
    If you're referring to me, I'm not an atheist. Also, you keep confusing what you believe with the truth. (Religious people have a habit of doing that.)
    Morally-charged language is not reserved for religious fanatics, even if they do tend to wield it to most devastating effect.

    The issue is this: you want to claim morality for the Christians, much like the crusaders wanted to claim Jerusalem. You can stick a flag in it as often as you like, it doesn't make it yours.
    (I think Aristotle said that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The highlighted is essentially showing the internal inconsistency of Christianity, by measuring it against its own standards.
    How remarkable then, that even with such benevolent scrutiny, it so often fails to measure up so spectacularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #132
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    How remarkable then, that even with such benevolent scrutiny, it so often fails to measure up so spectacularly.
    The benevolence of the scrutiny is irrelevant. Only its accuracy matters. Many self-proclaimed Christians do, indeed, fail to measure up to the example and teachings of Christ. They give those Christians who do a very bad name.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #133
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    There is nothing original about sin.

  4. #134
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The benevolence of the scrutiny is irrelevant.
    I was being facetious. (Not to you)

    God, explanation is so dull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #135
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Will you tell me why goodness matters from a materialist atheistic world view?

    Will anyone?
    Can anyone?
    Goodness is a subjective experience. It only exists if there are sentients beings. In so far as it exists in the minds of sentient beings, it is effectively self-referential. I know happiness is happiness because I couldn't mistake it for anything else, it is like nothing else. Same goes for pleasure and so on. We experience these things as good. Since goodness is entirely a product of the imagination, good feelings are the only good that ever really exists. Why do you need more of a reason than that to keep it going? I literally can't imagine the alternative, God or no God. What is a life seeking to avoid good sentiments? Why would anyone do that? Does anyone do that? I honestly doubt it.

    Now, if I assume that good at least exists in that sense, and I know the brain and all it's processes are a physical phenomenon, then I know there must be an analytical method by which I can figure what will create more or less happiness, take it away, etc... Not only for myself, but others. From here, a system of moral conduct can be built.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #136
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Will you tell me why goodness matters from a materialist atheistic world view?

    Will anyone?
    Can anyone?
    Sure, no worries Beafeater. Goodness is simply reciprocity. And being social animals we depend on reciprocity to survive.

    So a good person reciprocates our goodess to them.

    And reciprocity depends on our mirror neurons, sympathy and empathy.

    So a good person is able to mirror our feelings and behaviour, sympathise and empathise with us, vice versa, turn and turn about.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    Conditional goodness? When you're only good to those who are good to you... what good is that?

    Interdependence, and survival? When a person will die eventually... what is the point in merely surviving?

    This is a very hopeless view of life, don't you think?
    What next! Soon you will be telling me to take no thought for tomorrow like the lilies of the field, and worse, soon you will be telling me to love my enemies.

    And what is the point of surviving? Survival drives natural selection. And you and I are only here because of natural selection operating over thousands of millions of years.

    We have made a mistake to look upwards to explain our existence, when looking downwards provides a richer explanation.

    Natural selection unites us with the DNA of every living creature over the last four thousand million years and with all the life around us today.

    Religion has told us that we are all one, and natural selection shows us how we are all one and precisely how we are related to one another.

    So there is no need to worry how we relate to Göd, because we now know precisely how we relate to every living thing that has ever existed on Earth and to every living thing around us today.

  8. #138
    Senior Member Litsnob's Avatar
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    There is no sin, let alone any original one. Sin is a religious concept, a way to control people's behaviour through threat of punishment. Original sin is a repulsive idea* with no basis in anything real but it seems to be foundational to the Christian religion.

    Do people do bad things? Yes. Should societies construct systems for determining if someone did something bad and there should be a consequence? Yes. Do human beings have the ability to develop ethics without religion? Yes.

    *Setting aside the credibility of the whole Adam and Eve story, there is no logical reason why a baby should be considered a sinner except for creating an excuse to set up religious practices and beliefs specific to Christianity. Based on this weakness from birth, Christians can be told that they need God/Jesus.
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  9. #139
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    As society becomes more prosperous, and our child rearing improves, and we make more empathic and creative children, we will find that instead of original sin, we have an original blessing.

  10. #140
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    I love that my first reaction to this thread was "who is summoning me" until i realized that's my alias on a different site

    to answer the op too many years too late, the only source-able origin seems to be Abrahamic.
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