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Thread: Original sin?

  1. #121
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Your rationale is feeler rationale based on value judgements of the facts, thus you reject them as such because they're not pleasant to hear? (I thought we were talking about the scripture-based interpretation of original sin from the Bible.)
    my response is based on feeling because religion is not a logical thing people rarely find religion through careful deduction, they feel it... why should my response to such an article be any different? we all use thinking functions/we all use feeling functions- otherwise we are not complete human beings

    I was not aware that the thread had any rules on what aspect we were to approach the question from either... looking at things from a social psych perspective comes naturally to me, so why should my response not be from that viewpoint as well?

    interesting that you're attempting to discredit me for what perspective I choose for my response... I view religion or lack thereof to be a personal thing
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    The gender stuff would have been prior to Jesus being crucified and primarily in the Old Testament. If you felt condemnation, then they were probably confusedly teaching you Old Testament Law. Many churches simply do not understand the Bible and that's why it's so important for Christians to read the Bible for themselves, and pray for understanding.

    When you are saved, your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life. There are no more records of all of your failures. When Jesus was on the cross he cried out "it is finished!" His blood incinerated all records of sin in your life: past, present, and future.

    The final clause of the new covenant is revealed in Hebrews 8:12 "I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." And just for clarification, that is NOT a license to sin. God showed me through the scriptures how the Law proved that man will consistently fail when under it, and end up feeling like hypocrites. The scriptures consistently support that the secret to godliness is knowing that you are completely forgiven. Grace will destroy the power of sin in your life.

    Do you remember the woman who took an alabaster flask of oil and anointed the feet of Jesus? Jesus said to Simon, "I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has washed my feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little," (Luke 7:44-47).

    The more one realizes that they have been forgiven of all of their sins, the more one will love Jesus. Forgiveness does not lead to a lifestyle of sin. It leads to a life of glorifying God.
    You're not really hearing what I'm saying, because your answer is about something else entirely.
    There is nothing you need to be explaining to me -- I'm just telling you, "This is what is actually happening in the church."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    my response is based on feeling because religion is not a logical thing people rarely find religion through careful deduction, they feel it... why should my response to such an article be any different? we all use thinking functions/we all use feeling functions- otherwise we are not complete human beings

    I was not aware that the thread had any rules on what aspect we were to approach the question from either... looking at things from a social psych perspective comes naturally to me, so why should my response not be from that viewpoint as well?

    interesting that you're attempting to discredit me for what perspective I choose for my response... I view religion or lack thereof to be a personal thing
    Im right there with you, the whole concept of people helping people, a group of nice people, etc. are good, but when it comes to all the emotional feelings/strong "religous" thinking I am completely lost. I cant do praise and worship, it doesnt feel right.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #124
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Im right there with you, the whole concept of people helping people, a group of nice people, etc. are good, but when it comes to all the emotional feelings/strong "religous" thinking I am completely lost. I cant do praise and worship, it doesnt feel right.
    exactly!

    there's a difference between good and belief... doing good makes sense, it's what makes society work and it feels RIGHT in a way... belief just doesn't click the same way somehow... it makes me feel awkwardly empty in a way like being the only person on the stage at a musical who doesn't know the lyrics or the steps...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #125
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    If we were taught comparative religion at school, we could discuss the Torah, the Koran, the Bible, the Vedas and the Analects of Confucius, with some authority. As it stands, we are like salesmen trying to sell a Volkswagon without knowing anything about all the other makes of car.

    The problem is that for each of us, "My God is a jealous God", and so won't countenance us learning about any other Gods.

    And this problem is generalised to our culture. And most of us know next to nothing about other cultures, their manners and mores and language.

    And not knowing other cultures, we are blind to other cultures.

    And this blindness is a real problem in the global village, where we come across each other every day.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If we were taught comparative religion at school, we could discuss the Torah, the Koran, the Bible, the Vedas and the Analects of Confucius, with some authority. As it stands, we are like salesmen trying to sell a Volkswagon without knowing anything about all the other makes of car.

    The problem is that for each of us, "My God is a jealous God", and so won't countenance us learning about any other Gods.

    And this problem is generalised to our culture. And most of us know next to nothing about other cultures, their manners and mores and language.

    And not knowing other cultures, we are blind to other cultures.

    And this blindness is a real problem in the global village, where we come across each other every day.
    Volkswagen. Even if you dont know shit about other cars you can still spell yours right
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #127
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    Smile The Ruhr

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Volkswagen. Even if you dont know shit about other cars you can still spell yours right
    Ah, if only I lived in the Ruhr like you, Entropie, I would know how to spell the Peoples Waggon, the Volkswagen.

    But here I am marooned at the other ends of the Earth, ocassionallyt watching a Volkswagen flash by me. I must admit my favourite Volkswagen is pale yellow. It stands out among the crowd just as I like to do.

    I'd like you to think of me, Entropie, as a pale yellow Volkswagen, dodging the kangaroos as they cross the road, dreaming of my home in the Ruhr with Entropie.

  8. #128
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Ah, if only I lived in the Ruhr like you, Entropie, I would know how to spell the Peoples Waggon, the Volkswagen.

    But here I am marooned at the other ends of the Earth, ocassionallyt watching a Volkswagen flash by me. I must admit my favourite Volkswagen is pale yellow. It stands out among the crowd just as I like to do.

    I'd like you to think of me, Entropie, as a pale yellow Volkswagen, dodging the kangaroos as they cross the road, dreaming of my home in the Ruhr with Entropie.
    Well if you have said "Renault Kangoo" instead of Volkswagen your example would have still worked. I am just saying: you cant have a multi religion lesson cause then you wouldnt know what country to bomb
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    my response is based on feeling because religion is not a logical thing people rarely find religion through careful deduction, they feel it... why should my response to such an article be any different? we all use thinking functions/we all use feeling functions- otherwise we are not complete human beings

    I was not aware that the thread had any rules on what aspect we were to approach the question from either... looking at things from a social psych perspective comes naturally to me, so why should my response not be from that viewpoint as well?

    interesting that you're attempting to discredit me for what perspective I choose for my response... I view religion or lack thereof to be a personal thing
    No rules, no discredits. Just fascination with the paradox. I respect you.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    My point is that over and over again atheists want to use Christian morality to condemn christianity withou having a meaningful basis in morality themselves. In a sense they step out of atheist worldview and into the Christian worldview, where goodness matters. They attack the Christian worldview saying it's bad and then step back into the atheist worldview where goodness and badness don't matter. They never actually defend atheism and a world where goodness doesn't matter.
    The highlighted is essentially showing the internal inconsistency of Christianity, by measuring it against its own standards. One needn't have any personal morality to perform such a check, other than to remain as objective and accurate as possible. When the inconsistency is between teachings and behavior, this is usually considered hypocrisy: saying one thing, and doing another. You could also measure Christianity against the standards of another religion, or secular humanism, etc. but that is a different type of evaluation.

    Atheism and agnosticism are not world views "where goodness and badness don't matter". They are simply world views whose definitions of good and bad differ from those of Christianity, and are not based on the will of some god whose existence they doubt.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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