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  1. #131
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    Oh, and also
    "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." --Matthew 7:3-5

  2. #132
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I want to be heard and understood. You finally understand that.

    But you don't understand my intention--I want to be understood only because that's a prerequisite for actually holding a conversation.

    I don't care to be told that I'm alright as I am--that's not the right way to live. I know what confirmation bias is and I actively try to avoid it by actively seeking out worldviews and ideas that differ from my own. That is where you and I differ.

    You were better off when you had simply posted a Bible verse, before you had edited it to include your imperfect opinion--your imperfect representation of the Word.
    Honesty and forthrightness are also prerequisites for a conversation.

    I am open and transparent about everything I believe. But you are consistently ambiguous and even purposefully deceptive at times.

    Therefore, conversation with you is impossible.

  3. #133
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    I hear you loud and clear.

    You want to be reached. You want to be heard and understood. And you want to be told you're alright.
    But you're not. You're on the road to Hell, and you know it.

    You're afraid to die without God, and you're afraid to approach God because of your sin.

    But I'm telling you that you MUST approach God through his Son Jesus Christ if you want to be saved from your sin.
    Telling other people what they are thinking and feeling is a pretty lousy way to communicate. Frankly, you have no idea why a stranger might think or feel as they do. This is even bad communication form in a marriage relationship with someone you might know well; Christian marriage counselors will tell you as much themselves. The basic gist is that regardless of your intentions, you are not listening to what someone says, you are merely treating them as objects over which you can impose your own beliefs, and you leave no avenue by which your own beliefs can be challenged and potentially grow (unless, of course, you feel that you already understand everything perfect and cannot benefit from discussion with other human beings).

    This is not how communities or love works, and the main result of your approach is that you will first be (1) argued with and then (2) ignored and finally (3) be alone. Jesus might have been blunt and argumentative with the conservative religious leaders of his day, but he treated down to earth people and even those outside his faith with respect and love.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #134
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    I hear you loud and clear.

    You want to be reached. You want to be heard and understood. And you want to be told you're alright.
    But you're not. You're on the road to Hell, and you know it.

    You're afraid to die without God, and you're afraid to approach God because of your sin.

    But I'm telling you that you MUST approach God through his Son Jesus Christ if you want to be saved from your sin.

    Now hear the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved:

    John 5:24
    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QWZoId-dZQ

    +

    http://news.discovery.com/human/near-death-brain.html

    makes more sense
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    Honesty and forthrightness are also prerequisites for a conversation.

    I am open and transparent about everything I believe. But you are consistently ambiguous and even purposefully deceptive at times.

    Therefore, conversation with you is impossible.
    I'm working on fixing my end, and I'm asking you to do the same.

    I was ambiguous in order to spur you to ask me questions as the successful missionaries do--to teach you firsthand to do so. That was my intent. I apologize if my delivery was offensive, that I came across as deceptive in order to get my point across.

    I did attempt to adjust accordingly, however. Since I wasn't getting asked questions, I stopped being ambiguous and started laying it out there for you to see. Unfortunately, even when I told you my thoughts and intentions, most of what you perceived about my thoughts and intentions came from your own assumptions (that I seek approval, that I want to be told that I'm alright as I am) rather than what I've explicitly told you.

    I've asked you several questions, seeking clarification, and haven't received a response from them. I'm truly trying to understand your point of view--and, in the process--to get you to understand your own views and how to deliver them.

    Given all of this, are you absolutely sure that you're taking a step back, seeing things objectively, and delivering the message of God with no commentary, opinion, or personal bias?

  6. #136
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    You were better off when you had simply posted a Bible verse, before you had edited it to include your imperfect opinion--your imperfect representation of the Word.
    Actually, I would rather hear Spurgeon's own thoughts on the matter. I have a Bible, a few in fact, which I have actually read and studied more than many Christians I know. What I don't have on my own is the diversity of interpretations and perspectives that an open discussion of the topic can bring.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Actually, I would rather hear Spurgeon's own thoughts on the matter. I have a Bible, a few in fact, which I have actually read and studied more than many Christians I know. What I don't have on my own is the diversity of interpretations and perspectives that an open discussion of the topic can bring.
    This thread took a turn toward prosthelytizing. His goal is to point me to the light, rather than to have an open discussion. I'll clarify--in that particular instance, he had responded to me at first with a simple Bible verse, then later edited it to include a condemnation of me. I'm trying to get him to see that absolutely nobody has a truly objective stance.

    However, even still, by his own definition, a truly objective stance would involve only quoting the Word with no editorial or opinion involved--especially not a judgmental one--because, to him, the Word is objective.

    If this thread were about having an open discussion and sharing our perspectives on an equal playing field, then I'd absolutely be in agreement with you.

    Maybe we can start another thread where an open discussion is possible, because he and I have ruined this one

  8. #138
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I don't disagree. I wasn't claiming this to be an open and productive discussion, just trying to stave off another onslaught of unaccompanied Bible verses in the perhaps misplaced hopes of finally having one. As someone remarked in a rep, I can read my Bible whenever I want.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #139
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't disagree. I wasn't claiming this to be an open and productive discussion, just trying to stave off another onslaught of unaccompanied Bible verses in the perhaps misplaced hopes of finally having one. As someone remarked in a rep, I can read my Bible whenever I want.
    I'm sorry what?

    How many times has that happened? How many times has it happened before the thread that happpened to be posted long after this one? How then could you say this?

  10. #140
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm sorry what?

    How many times has that happened? How many times has it happened before the thread that happpened to be posted long after this one? How then could you say this?
    Now I'm totally confused. How many times has what happened? Before what thread that was posted long after this one?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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