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  1. #21
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Lark can say and Lark says BULLSHIT I'm afraid. What is this weird stuff you're tapping out man, seriously? I noticed it in other threads besides this one too, dont read any note of hostility into my response because its not there, its just wonder because at this juncture I fully expect you to be posting, unsupported pictures of the moon in threads or something like that.
    You don't have to understand it, exactly people are in their illusions and what is outside their illusion is bs.

  2. #22
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Lawd, everything suddenly makes sense. [I did some more research.] Jung was a leader in the study of visualization and the unconscious. So Jung was into mysticism, which means he wasn't gripped by God [like he thought], he was gripped by demons; it's doubtful he knew that's what they were. He wrote about his spirit guides where he was first led by a spirit guide called Elijah, which eventually he wrote about changed into an elderly man, Philemon. Jung wrote that Philemon was an external force that had power over his mind. Jung said, "Philemon represented a force which was not myself...it was he who taught me psychic objectivity, the reality of the psyche...there is something in me which can say things that I do not know and do not intend."
    He seriously must have thought his spirit guides were God or God's angels leading him into truth.
    But this is an argument from fallacy. You initially considered the possibility that Jung had a personal revelation until you researched more and discovered that he was interested in mysticism. Once you heard that, you concluded that Jung had not experienced anything divine, but instead that he had encountered demons. Essentially, you are asserting that mysticism is not included in your understanding of God, so anything that led Jung to mysticism cannot be divine. Jung's experiences are consistent with the experiences of those who are understood to have had a revelation...the only difference is the fruit of that revelation.

    I understand that the Bible warns that demons will attempt to impersonate God. And I understand that if Jung decided to kill people because these forces compelled him to, it would be fairly easy to dismiss them as divine. But mysticism, while too broadly defined to count as a philosophy in itself, is not inconsistent with God - it's simply a different path to him. Why do you dismiss Jung's experiences with the facepalm smiley? His conclusions do not mirror the dogma of yours or any other religion, but their lack of specificity represents to me an honest spiritual inquiry, not a demonic hustle.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Jung used the word libido in pretty much the same manner as we today speak of action potential in neuropsychology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_potential , expect its noted today that its the same thing that happens in everywhere in our bodies, while jung saw it only a mental energy.

    Well the definition of complex is "clusters of feeling toned associations around a common theme". If you think about money for example and think it as the theme and all feeling toned memories you have about money as the associations around it, the first time you had a summer job and was able to buy your first car, when you were little and figured out that you can change money to candy etc etc. Now because of these associations you have developed over the years aroun money is what makes you see money as something else than just a piece of fancy paper. People often think at complex as something negative, which it naturally can be, but isnt it always. It is more prone of being negative because negative things are more easily repressed and repressed things form complexes easier.

    These complexes wont morph themselves into archetypes, but you are able to make archetypal associations around some theme, which forms an complex. Im not sure if its neccesary for archetype to have an complex to link itself to in order to have an effect, but that certainly makes the effect of the archetype stronger.

    Its not that complexes become a channel, but because there are loads of associations around the theme(which together makes the complex), the complex has more energy than a single thought and can even seem to have its own energy.
    I do think that sounds a lot like how Jung used the term.

    The two greatest sources on Jung that I've read, besides Jung himself which can be less easily understood on the first reading, have been anthony storr and anthony stevens, even at that it was some time ago, so I could be mistaken about the role of complex and archetype, I agree that complex had none of the negative connotations, it simply was, but it is some how related to the archetypes.

    I just absolutely love the jungian version of the mind, with the conscious, unconscious and archetypes and complexes all constilated like a kind of star chart, although I know that jung had a thing for mandalas and its probably meant to resemble that more.

  5. #25
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    @Nerd Girl did you type in 'the Bible on mysticism' and choose the first page you came to for information? Because it seems that way.

    Christian mysticism refers to the development of mystical practices and theory within Christianity. It has often been connected to mystical theology, especially in the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions. The attributes and means by which Christian mysticism is studied and practiced are varied and range from ecstatic visions of the soul's mystical union with God to simple prayerful contemplation of Holy Scripture (i.e., Lectio Divina). This article addresses the practice of the inner, spiritual life within the Christian tradition.



    Peter 1:4 says that God enables Christians to be "partakers of the divine nature."
    John 17:21 records Jesus' prayer for his followers during the last supper: "You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; [I pray] that they also may be one in Us."
    The mystical experience of the apostles, Peter, John, and James, at the Transfiguration of Jesus, is confirmed in each of the Synoptic Gospels. See, e.g., Mark 9:2-8. Jesus led the three to the top of Mount Tabor. Before the eye of the disciples, he was transformed. His face shone like the sun, and his cloths became brilliant white. Elijah and Moses appeared to them. Then “A cloud came, overshadowing them and a voice came out of the cloud, and said “This is my beloved Son. Listen to him.""[43]
    In II Corinthians 12:2-6, St. Paul refers to what tradition says was his own mystical experience, when he speaks of a man who was "caught up to the third heaven." [44]
    In Galatians 2:20, Paul says "It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."
    In Ephesians 4:6, Paul writes "[There is] one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in all.
    1 John 4:16: "He who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."
    1 Corinthians 6:19: "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"
    2 Timothy 1:14: "Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us."
    (mĭs'tĭ-sĭz'əm)
    n.
    Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God.
    The experience of such communion as described by mystics.
    A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.
    Vague, groundless speculation.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Do you have a specific reference where Jung stated that? After reviewing the videos and several websites, I don't think that's correct. Jung specifically commented on talking to different spiritual entities and called them by name. I posted a quote from Jung earlier in the thread where he named the entities.
    But you should understand why jung was talking to these entities and gave them names, jung developed this technique called active imagination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_imagination and through that he came up with the whole idea of archetypes and collective unconscious(also the idea of individuation). Philemon and those folks were products of active imagination and were archetypes(philemon the archetype of old wise man, salome was his anima).

    In 'man and his symbols' jung says this thing about archetypes being from earlier stages of evolution and being in our genes.

    I suggest reading what this wiki article says about the red book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(Jung) and watching the whole interview at op
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  7. #27
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    In other words Religions are Archetypes constructs from thought forms, based on supported illusion.

    Jung understood this by the end, it was a bit late though, he ran out of time to amplify his own frequency so he presented what he knew the best way he could. And it goes over peoples heads a lot, many people on their paths are out of sync to their energy, and believe in what they believe for a reason. It is safe, it meets the criteria of their ego, their dualism. For to consider that life is more than the sum total of personal ego is incomprehensible. Indeed when one starts to understand the bardos and tibetan book of the dead, there is a lot of wisdom there. Personally Jung was expanding his consciousness and stopped short.

    When you focus on the I, is there any energy left for Thy?
    When thy will be done?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I have the holy spirit.

    I'm sharing my ideas from a Christian perspective, as supported by the Bible. These are a couple of scriptures that support my hypothesis...

    Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God, (Leviticus 19:31).

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, (1 John 4:1-2).
    In other words Christianity is an Archetype constructs from thought forms, based on supported illusion.

    Nothing really wrong with it, only that it limits a persons perceptions of the mutidimensional and understand where truth comes from. One can spend a whole life time there in belief, it is once removed from any and all beliefs does one start to expand their manifestation of thy holy spirit. Before then its just ego talk.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    In other words Religions are Archetypes constructs from thought forms, based on supported illusion.

    Jung understood this by the end, it was a bit late though, he ran out of time to amplify his own frequency so he presented what he knew the best way he could. And it goes over peoples heads a lot, many people on their paths are out of sync to their energy, and believe in what they believe for a reason. It is safe, it meets the criteria of their ego, their dualism. For to consider that life is more than the sum total of personal ego is incomprehensible. Indeed when one starts to understand the bardos and tibetan book of the dead, there is a lot of wisdom there. Personally Jung was expanding his consciousness and stopped short.

    When you focus on the I, is there any energy left for Thy?
    When thy will be done?
    No.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    In other words Christianity is an Archetype constructs from thought forms, based on supported illusion.
    No.

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