User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 60

  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    This is interesting. I'll give it to you straight up. I have no qualms or objections to any faith per se. Some of the smartest people I know are Christians and I respect them greatly. Having said that, I have a problem with people believing in a faith just because they were brought up in that environment or because their priest said so. If someone's reasons for believing any religious doctrine is just circular, and like it or not, it often is, then my respect for them will decrease. I respect religious people who came into their beliefs through well thought out, philosophical processes. If that's not there, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna respect you for believing something you haven't thought out. I think that's really the only way being an atheist would change me ethically. I'm the guy who's not even willing to troll on the internet. At least I think I have a strong moral compass. I would be ethical regardless.
    Why is the one deserving of respect and the other not? I mean the two different ways of arriving at conclusions about religion you mention there? It appears that a certain belief in rationality and calculation is considered valuable and worthy of being in the social or cultural ascendency from what you're saying.

  2. #32
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why is the one deserving of respect and the other not? I mean the two different ways of arriving at conclusions about religion you mention there? It appears that a certain belief in rationality and calculation is considered valuable and worthy of being in the social or cultural ascendency from what you're saying.
    Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I value logic and independent thinking (a bit too much really). To me, blind faith is one of the most dangerous things in this world, both in a social and intellectual sense. Any academic paper or journal worth its salt would be really strict on the evidence the author has to provide. Things like 'sometimes you just gotta believe' or 'well I grew up in that environment' just doesn't cut it. There is a reason for this, the conclusions you get from such processes just aren't reliable. Why would I respect this type of thought process in general life? Even you could justify it for all the small things, one person's religion is a HUGE personal choice. Why would you decide on something like that with such questionable reasoning? Fuck me, wars have been started because of blind faith. This isn't just an armchair intellectual problem. Maybe I'm just being harsh.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  3. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I value logic and independent thinking (a bit too much really). To me, blind faith is one of the most dangerous things in this world, both in a social and intellectual sense. Any academic paper or journal worth its salt would be really strict on the evidence the author has to provide. Things like 'sometimes you just gotta believe' or 'well I grew up in that environment' just doesn't cut it. There is a reason for this, the conclusions you get from such processes just aren't reliable. Why would I respect this type of thought process in general life? Even you could justify it for all the small things, one person's religion is a HUGE personal choice. Why would you decide on something like that with such questionable reasoning? Fuck me, wars have been started because of blind faith. This isn't just an armchair intellectual problem. Maybe I'm just being harsh.
    Wars have? Which ones? When? How many people do you know and how recently have you had the conversation in which someone has told you 'well I grew up in that environment'?

  4. #34
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Wars have? Which ones? When? How many people do you know and how recently have you had the conversation in which someone has told you 'well I grew up in that environment'?
    Religious wars, terrorists attacks etc.

    People tell me the latter all the time, and I'm a philosophy tutor. "Well I guess that position makes sense, but I grew up as a Christian so I won't quit now" or something to that effect.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  5. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Religious wars, terrorists attacks etc.

    People tell me the latter all the time, and I'm a philosophy tutor. "Well I guess that position makes sense, but I grew up as a Christian so I won't quit now" or something to that effect.
    I am surprised at the second point and I would suggest that with reference to the first point that speaking to the protagonists would reveal more than blind faith, I'm just saying so because I know that living through the end of the troubles and experiencing sectarianism then and now it is easily dismissed by atheists, secularists and others as merely a "religious war" and perhaps would qualify as your "blind faith", in reality it is and was much more complex.

    A great deal of western history would be dismissed by that measure too.

  6. #36
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I am surprised at the second point and I would suggest that with reference to the first point that speaking to the protagonists would reveal more than blind faith, I'm just saying so because I know that living through the end of the troubles and experiencing sectarianism then and now it is easily dismissed by atheists, secularists and others as merely a "religious war" and perhaps would qualify as your "blind faith", in reality it is and was much more complex.

    A great deal of western history would be dismissed by that measure too.
    Yeah no doubt these wars were often political in nature and that religion was just a part of it. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that blind faith didn't any harm. I hate to bang on the same religions again and again but there's in my mind that there would be a lot less suicide bombers if all these guys took more time to be critical of their own beliefs. It's like that old "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. There will still be killing without guns, but you can't deny that guns help speed things up. I think it's the same with blind faith. We'll probably still have all these wars, but ffs, blind faith still did a whole lot of bad.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  7. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Yeah no doubt these wars were often political in nature and that religion was just a part of it. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that blind faith didn't any harm. I hate to bang on the same religions again and again but there's in my mind that there would be a lot less suicide bombers if all these guys took more time to be critical of their own beliefs. It's like that old "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. There will still be killing without guns, but you can't deny that guns help speed things up. I think it's the same with blind faith. We'll probably still have all these wars, but ffs, blind faith still did a whole lot of bad.
    Blind faith isnt synomynous with religion by any stretch.

  8. #38
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Blind faith isnt synomynous with religion by any stretch.
    Of course not, and I didn't say it was. It just happens that many religious people do embrace blind faith. As I said before, it's not religion I have a problem with. If you've come to your faith through well thought out means, then good for you. I know many people like that and I respect them. I have the same problems with people being blindly defensive about their sports teams, even if it's my own team. I just think that any belief that you want to hold on to so deeply must be logically justified. Is that too much to ask?
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  9. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Of course not, and I didn't say it was. It just happens that many religious people do embrace blind faith. As I said before, it's not religion I have a problem with. If you've come to your faith through well thought out means, then good for you. I know many people like that and I respect them. I have the same problems with people being blindly defensive about their sports teams, even if it's my own team. I just think that any belief that you want to hold on to so deeply must be logically justified. Is that too much to ask?
    I've not known very many people who eschew logic or who dont have a logical argument even for supposed "blind faith", perhaps I would apply the same "grudge" to unthinking or unthought out opinion, which would be much much wider in scope than religion. Personally I tend to think that its easy, often obvious, to spot issues with religion but I would apply the formula first articulated within religion itself of "splinters/scalfs/mots and planks".

  10. #40
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    NeFi
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've not known very many people who eschew logic or who dont have a logical argument even for supposed "blind faith", perhaps I would apply the same "grudge" to unthinking or unthought out opinion, which would be much much wider in scope than religion. Personally I tend to think that its easy, often obvious, to spot issues with religion but I would apply the formula first articulated within religion itself of "splinters/scalfs/mots and planks".
    I have OCD with thoughts, logic being one of the concepts I hold on to tightly, so I'm very much on the lookout for these logical faux pas. Even when someone seems like they're being logical, ask yourself, is this really the inference to the best solution, or are these guys just trying to rationalise a point they're already committed to? If actually look at the debates and arguments a lot of people put out, you'll realise how weak and fuzzy their logic is. Weak enough for my theist friends to shake their heads and go "you're making us look bad". Even one of my best friends said something like "you're not a Christian so you don't think being gay is wrong, but I'm a Christian and that's all there is to it" and this is just one example of a long long list of similar reasoning. Eh, I really think that if you keep your eyes peeled for these things, you would not be impressed.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-01-2017, 02:00 AM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-05-2016, 10:55 AM
  3. Does it or some of it describe you?
    By BrainySchmuck in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-22-2016, 10:15 AM
  4. [NT] On Sleep, or Lack Of It
    By Fleeting in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-17-2012, 02:08 AM
  5. [ISTP] ISTPs - How Does One Have Those Kind of Conversations With You?
    By violaine in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-22-2009, 01:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO