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How does your spirituality or lack of it influence your daily life?

Coriolis

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but it is very hard to detach spirituality from my natural thinking process. i sort of see them as one in the same. so it is rather hard to think about how my behavior would be different, if i did not have the beliefs that i do. perhaps a better answer than it does not really impact my behavior is that it impacts my entire Being so much that i would be an entirely different person without it.
I agree. I do see some effect of my spirituality on daily life, especially the spirituality I developed in adulthood, after giving up much of what I grew up with. I have become much more tolerant of others, more willing to appreciate and learn from different ways of doing things. I did not act with prejudice before, that would not have been "polite" in my upbringing, but there was always a sense of us and them, with the "them" sometimes having a flavor of "wrong" (gays are a good example). Now I have more appreciation for our common humanity and interconnectedness, and that early, reflexive "this is foreign" response has largely fallen away. I am especially alert to what I might have to learn from others of different background and traditions.

Second, I feel much more responsibility for the earth and the environment. This has affected my driving habits, energy use, trash handling, etc. I could easily get preachy about it, but restrain myself in favor of living the example I want to set. Of course, I freely answer questions.
 

Helios

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I am thinking principally of your behaviour towards others, are you more or less kind than you believe you otherwise would be?

There is no such thing as "spirituality", so no influence. I am as kind as the situation and person warrants.
 

So It Goes

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If one is to call "spirituality" the intense curiosity for learning about the world, the wonder of looking at the night sky, the joy of interpreting literature, the bond between two minds, the need for reflection about life and death, then I guess I'm a spiritual person. But if being "spiritual" means a devotion to a certain God or religious dogma, then I am not spiritual. Either way, I find both attitudes to help me in being a better person (or so I think).
 

Coriolis

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There is a Wikipedia article on Harry Potter, too. I suppose that means he exists.
He does. Not as a flesh-and-blood human living somewhere in the UK, but as an idea in the mind of his author, and ultimately of his many fans. Things do not have to be concrete or tangible to exist.
 

animenagai

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This is interesting. I'll give it to you straight up. I have no qualms or objections to any faith per se. Some of the smartest people I know are Christians and I respect them greatly. Having said that, I have a problem with people believing in a faith just because they were brought up in that environment or because their priest said so. If someone's reasons for believing any religious doctrine is just circular, and like it or not, it often is, then my respect for them will decrease. I respect religious people who came into their beliefs through well thought out, philosophical processes. If that's not there, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna respect you for believing something you haven't thought out. I think that's really the only way being an atheist would change me ethically. I'm the guy who's not even willing to troll on the internet. At least I think I have a strong moral compass. I would be ethical regardless.
 

Lark

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I agree. I do see some effect of my spirituality on daily life, especially the spirituality I developed in adulthood, after giving up much of what I grew up with. I have become much more tolerant of others, more willing to appreciate and learn from different ways of doing things. I did not act with prejudice before, that would not have been "polite" in my upbringing, but there was always a sense of us and them, with the "them" sometimes having a flavor of "wrong" (gays are a good example). Now I have more appreciation for our common humanity and interconnectedness, and that early, reflexive "this is foreign" response has largely fallen away. I am especially alert to what I might have to learn from others of different background and traditions.

Second, I feel much more responsibility for the earth and the environment. This has affected my driving habits, energy use, trash handling, etc. I could easily get preachy about it, but restrain myself in favor of living the example I want to set. Of course, I freely answer questions.

I found this interesting because the idea of "othering" particular individuals and groups, the dividing into in-groups and out-groups, is something which has a major role to play in the creation and sustaining of oppression, it corresponds to a lot of things besides sexuality and it is often operative even among groups which are the victim of it, so there is a kind of one mans out group is another mans in group. I think this sort of thinking is at the crux of most oppression and it is what I try to identify and address or challenge as soon as it arises, especially if it is unconscious.

What I have found growing up though is that while I've always held the view in your post which is underlined that it is a complex matter, more than I originally believed.

For one, hold this view does not negate the objective reality of others holding a contrary view or even of an objective reality in which most people are neutral or apathetic but will easily become mobilised into a niche or identity group when a crisis occurs or hostility breaks out, my first experience of this, and thankfully not my last, was to do with religious sectarianism as it divides northern ireland. I discovered that having no sectarian views myself, no bitterness and no bigotry, was absolutely no defense against being labelled sectarian, it also was no defense against others believing it or others being unprepared to challenge that false witness once it was made.

I also have seen examples of this kind of thing in other contexts, I remember seeing news reel footage of a white reporter getting her ass kicked when she went to report in a black neighbourhood in the US and stories from the LA riots of a white trucker getting beat up by black youths or men. In status terms they're not likely to be victims of racism, they're probably not likely to hold racist views, although they were the victim of the us-them, us-other reality of which racism is one corresponding kind of thinking.

Also, just because you choose to rescind as near as possible this oppressive process of "othering" and dehumanising does not change other objective factors, such as and probably most importantly minority-majority relations. So you have to ask yourself whether or not proposed changes will inflict upon a majority the present personal and individual troubles of the minority, no one is liberated or prospers through collective and universal immiseration.

Sorry if that all seems a little tangental or off topic, its just something I do, I didnt used to because when I heard people saying things like that I was inclined to think, well, there's worse evils but I've become less able to sustain that as time has gone on.
 

Lark

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He does. Not as a flesh-and-blood human living somewhere in the UK, but as an idea in the mind of his author, and ultimately of his many fans. Things do not have to be concrete or tangible to exist.

I dont think that God is a make believe meme.
 

Lark

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This is interesting. I'll give it to you straight up. I have no qualms or objections to any faith per se. Some of the smartest people I know are Christians and I respect them greatly. Having said that, I have a problem with people believing in a faith just because they were brought up in that environment or because their priest said so. If someone's reasons for believing any religious doctrine is just circular, and like it or not, it often is, then my respect for them will decrease. I respect religious people who came into their beliefs through well thought out, philosophical processes. If that's not there, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna respect you for believing something you haven't thought out. I think that's really the only way being an atheist would change me ethically. I'm the guy who's not even willing to troll on the internet. At least I think I have a strong moral compass. I would be ethical regardless.

Why is the one deserving of respect and the other not? I mean the two different ways of arriving at conclusions about religion you mention there? It appears that a certain belief in rationality and calculation is considered valuable and worthy of being in the social or cultural ascendency from what you're saying.
 

animenagai

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Why is the one deserving of respect and the other not? I mean the two different ways of arriving at conclusions about religion you mention there? It appears that a certain belief in rationality and calculation is considered valuable and worthy of being in the social or cultural ascendency from what you're saying.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I value logic and independent thinking (a bit too much really). To me, blind faith is one of the most dangerous things in this world, both in a social and intellectual sense. Any academic paper or journal worth its salt would be really strict on the evidence the author has to provide. Things like 'sometimes you just gotta believe' or 'well I grew up in that environment' just doesn't cut it. There is a reason for this, the conclusions you get from such processes just aren't reliable. Why would I respect this type of thought process in general life? Even you could justify it for all the small things, one person's religion is a HUGE personal choice. Why would you decide on something like that with such questionable reasoning? Fuck me, wars have been started because of blind faith. This isn't just an armchair intellectual problem. Maybe I'm just being harsh.
 

Lark

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Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I value logic and independent thinking (a bit too much really). To me, blind faith is one of the most dangerous things in this world, both in a social and intellectual sense. Any academic paper or journal worth its salt would be really strict on the evidence the author has to provide. Things like 'sometimes you just gotta believe' or 'well I grew up in that environment' just doesn't cut it. There is a reason for this, the conclusions you get from such processes just aren't reliable. Why would I respect this type of thought process in general life? Even you could justify it for all the small things, one person's religion is a HUGE personal choice. Why would you decide on something like that with such questionable reasoning? Fuck me, wars have been started because of blind faith. This isn't just an armchair intellectual problem. Maybe I'm just being harsh.

Wars have? Which ones? When? How many people do you know and how recently have you had the conversation in which someone has told you 'well I grew up in that environment'?
 

animenagai

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Wars have? Which ones? When? How many people do you know and how recently have you had the conversation in which someone has told you 'well I grew up in that environment'?

Religious wars, terrorists attacks etc.

People tell me the latter all the time, and I'm a philosophy tutor. "Well I guess that position makes sense, but I grew up as a Christian so I won't quit now" or something to that effect.
 

Lark

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Religious wars, terrorists attacks etc.

People tell me the latter all the time, and I'm a philosophy tutor. "Well I guess that position makes sense, but I grew up as a Christian so I won't quit now" or something to that effect.

I am surprised at the second point and I would suggest that with reference to the first point that speaking to the protagonists would reveal more than blind faith, I'm just saying so because I know that living through the end of the troubles and experiencing sectarianism then and now it is easily dismissed by atheists, secularists and others as merely a "religious war" and perhaps would qualify as your "blind faith", in reality it is and was much more complex.

A great deal of western history would be dismissed by that measure too.
 

animenagai

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I am surprised at the second point and I would suggest that with reference to the first point that speaking to the protagonists would reveal more than blind faith, I'm just saying so because I know that living through the end of the troubles and experiencing sectarianism then and now it is easily dismissed by atheists, secularists and others as merely a "religious war" and perhaps would qualify as your "blind faith", in reality it is and was much more complex.

A great deal of western history would be dismissed by that measure too.

Yeah no doubt these wars were often political in nature and that religion was just a part of it. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that blind faith didn't any harm. I hate to bang on the same religions again and again but there's in my mind that there would be a lot less suicide bombers if all these guys took more time to be critical of their own beliefs. It's like that old "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. There will still be killing without guns, but you can't deny that guns help speed things up. I think it's the same with blind faith. We'll probably still have all these wars, but ffs, blind faith still did a whole lot of bad.
 

Lark

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Yeah no doubt these wars were often political in nature and that religion was just a part of it. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that blind faith didn't any harm. I hate to bang on the same religions again and again but there's in my mind that there would be a lot less suicide bombers if all these guys took more time to be critical of their own beliefs. It's like that old "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. There will still be killing without guns, but you can't deny that guns help speed things up. I think it's the same with blind faith. We'll probably still have all these wars, but ffs, blind faith still did a whole lot of bad.

Blind faith isnt synomynous with religion by any stretch.
 

animenagai

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Blind faith isnt synomynous with religion by any stretch.

Of course not, and I didn't say it was. It just happens that many religious people do embrace blind faith. As I said before, it's not religion I have a problem with. If you've come to your faith through well thought out means, then good for you. I know many people like that and I respect them. I have the same problems with people being blindly defensive about their sports teams, even if it's my own team. I just think that any belief that you want to hold on to so deeply must be logically justified. Is that too much to ask?
 

Lark

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Of course not, and I didn't say it was. It just happens that many religious people do embrace blind faith. As I said before, it's not religion I have a problem with. If you've come to your faith through well thought out means, then good for you. I know many people like that and I respect them. I have the same problems with people being blindly defensive about their sports teams, even if it's my own team. I just think that any belief that you want to hold on to so deeply must be logically justified. Is that too much to ask?

I've not known very many people who eschew logic or who dont have a logical argument even for supposed "blind faith", perhaps I would apply the same "grudge" to unthinking or unthought out opinion, which would be much much wider in scope than religion. Personally I tend to think that its easy, often obvious, to spot issues with religion but I would apply the formula first articulated within religion itself of "splinters/scalfs/mots and planks".
 

animenagai

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I've not known very many people who eschew logic or who dont have a logical argument even for supposed "blind faith", perhaps I would apply the same "grudge" to unthinking or unthought out opinion, which would be much much wider in scope than religion. Personally I tend to think that its easy, often obvious, to spot issues with religion but I would apply the formula first articulated within religion itself of "splinters/scalfs/mots and planks".

I have OCD with thoughts, logic being one of the concepts I hold on to tightly, so I'm very much on the lookout for these logical faux pas. Even when someone seems like they're being logical, ask yourself, is this really the inference to the best solution, or are these guys just trying to rationalise a point they're already committed to? If actually look at the debates and arguments a lot of people put out, you'll realise how weak and fuzzy their logic is. Weak enough for my theist friends to shake their heads and go "you're making us look bad". Even one of my best friends said something like "you're not a Christian so you don't think being gay is wrong, but I'm a Christian and that's all there is to it" and this is just one example of a long long list of similar reasoning. Eh, I really think that if you keep your eyes peeled for these things, you would not be impressed.
 
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