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  1. #1
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default Defective perception

    Lol, i am on a roll today.

    A 'Thing' exist's, therefore it is right. According to what? Mans notion of what is right/wrong, good/bad. I give the 'thing' logical validity.

    However what if the 'thing' doesn't exist and is only a result of the trappings of an illogical mind. If one is essentially feeding the existence then how does one then question if their perception is defective?

    I hope the above makes sense. I have been trying to decipher this and other questions for the last 3 hours and so far not come to a conclusion.
    Grrr, Sundays, lol.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #2
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I don't think three hours is long enough to come to a conclusion on that.
    If our consciousness allowed everything, we'd all be God or crazy.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I don't think three hours is long enough to come to a conclusion on that.
    If our consciousness allowed everything, we'd all be God or crazy.
    No, its not consciousness, its what your mind is telling you, that if consciousness allowed to have control then your mind would go crazy because it lost its control to be God.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    I had an interesting perspective and became distracted and lost the gist of it.

    Suffice to say once one retrains ego mind does ones perceptions change to encompass consciousness in spirit and heart. Were one willing to be brave and empty the mind of all the programming then all the questioning and logic would start coming from a knowing that is a stronger foundation than the physical mind can comprehened. Hence the mind is in full control and anything else is fearful to the physical perceptions that it thinks is the only way to tangibaly measure and control the world, science and religion included.

  5. #5
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    everything exists. because everything is a perspective and those exist. everything can be viewed from different sides, yet doing so makes it into a different perspective. the confusion comes from the assumption that you are looking at a solid thing. looking at it in one way, "it" seems to be real, looking at it another way it seems to be "illusion" (because this way of looking -this subject- includes a logic that categorizes true or false), looking at it a third way it seems to be a perspective (because this way of looking has become aware of what looking is). looking -not at it!- but at the previous three ways of looking (the subject), all of them are revealed to be perspectives - there is no 'it' outside of perception (one logic would say: it's unknown). now you can go insane. (it's called pluralism). but wait a moment, there is a new object on the horizon. it's "the subject" and it various forms of logic and how they relate to each other. one subject sees through dualities of true or false (logic), another relates perspectives in a different manner to each other. how are perspectives related to each other, in the seen subject? this examination gives birth to "vision logic" = consciousness about the logic behind visions (perspectives). turns out that vision logic gives the best orientation in reality, that you have ever had.


    not sure how this relates to the thread, but it's groundwork.

    it explains the truth in the intuition that things exist, if they can be perceived. they just dont exists as things. but they don't exist as defect either. if so, all perception would be a defect.

    how do you not feed a perspective, or the sub-subject which creates this perspective? you forgett about it.

    (but sometimes they come back, lol)

    insisting that "it"'s just a defect might be an attempt to dissociate the sub-subject which creates this perspective. dissociation put's energy into it, prolonges it's lifetime. such dis-integration is maybe the only major defect that can happen to the perceptive apparatus. the isolation can make one perspective to appear as if it is bigger than life (= other perspectives), lurking in the shadow.

    the subject (logic) needs to be owned/integrated, thereby it becomes available for questioning, through the rest of the available subject/logic.

  6. #6
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    This is an incredibly interesting question. As a dom intuitive, the things I perceive as possibilities have a distinct reality-even if they will never match to actual reality. They are so real that I can almost touch them and I feel I can look out over a landscape and they exist there as real entities.

    I see this in a huge way with Ni as well-it doesnt matter if the preception described is "right" or "wrong" according to the emperically dervived notion of reality, rather often the beauty is in simply the novel way of seeing the item.

    @Samsara-can you describe how the "things" considered feel/look/are perceived in your own mind?

  7. #7
    Junior Member paixfleurs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I don't think three hours is long enough to come to a conclusion on that.
    If our consciousness allowed everything, we'd all be God or crazy.

    Why is it one or the other? We'd probably all be crazy if we saw as God does.
    Sometimes, the only realists are the dreamers. - Paul Wellstone

  8. #8
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Our perceptions are often mistaken, so that is why it is so important to test them against reality.

    However MBTI has not been tested against reality in seventy years. In fact the whole point of MBTI is to create false perceptions in the victim, so they will not be able to see what is in front of them and will not be able to make rational decisions.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Dearest @nanook. I thoroughly enjoy reading your opinions. Your ability to see many angles and dismantle data in an analytical manner, well, i think you have now pushed me to the brink of insanity. That is a compliment

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    This is an incredibly interesting question. As a dom intuitive, the things I perceive as possibilities have a distinct reality-even if they will never match to actual reality. They are so real that I can almost touch them and I feel I can look out over a landscape and they exist there as real entities.

    I see this in a huge way with Ni as well-it doesnt matter if the preception described is "right" or "wrong" according to the emperically dervived notion of reality, rather often the beauty is in simply the novel way of seeing the item.

    @Samsara-can you describe how the "things" considered feel/look/are perceived in your own mind?
    Jesus, how does one describe what is both tangible yet untangible? OK, it's the unseeable without the attachment or need for a label. For example a person who radiates light from within, it's the euphoric high but for no reason, it's feeling the vibrations under ones feet minus the need of the earth quake to provide the sensation, it's the 'thing' that was in my room this morning playing with my heart stone then dropped it thus making me jump. To me, these are real because i experience it first hand but then like yourself i envision possibilities and scenarios which might as well be first hand experiences because it feels real.

    I sometimes think/feel like i am not fully grounded, like i am slightly off center. I don't know if that makes sense to you, i hope so. I find it hard to articulate with such conviction and passion the true extent of how it is or possibly how i perceive it to be. I can only revel in whatever this is. If this is truly something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Our perceptions are often mistaken, so that is why it is so important to test them against reality.

    However MBTI has not been tested against reality in seventy years. In fact the whole point of MBTI is to create false perceptions in the victim, so they will not be able to see what is in front of them and will not be able to make rational decisions.
    Valid point
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  10. #10
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    i can't articulate what i really think about this at the moment, but:

    i think everyone's perception is "defective" in a sense. being human, we cannot be completely objective and unbiased an see the surrounding world just for what it is. we are not machines - or gods. so our perception is flawed by default.

    on the other hand - i see no reason why this should be framed in such negative terms. perhaps we were not meant to perceive objective reality, whatever it might be, in the first place. and it is this quality of our perception that allows us to see the world from a multitude of perspectives - to develop them, compare them, explain them to others, defend them, decide which is more valuable or relevant, argue over them, even fight sometimes. this is wonderful in itself.
    "i love deadlines. i like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (c) douglas adams

    "there are only two ways to live your life. one is as though nothing is a miracle. the other is as though everything is a miracle." (c) albert einstein

    "if only i could grow with my eyes - like these leaves - into the depth" (c) sergei esenin

    "god is in the details" (c) proverb

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