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Thread: There is no God

  1. #321

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    However, I'm not sure what I should read in order to get in touch with this depth you speak of. I mean, wow, who do you hold as deep? Aquinas? St. John of the Cross? C.S. Lewis? Pascal? Francis Schaeffer? Kierkegaard? Ignatius?
    Those are the ones I've read, there are others, of those I think Pascal, Ignatious and Aquinas are the best, I probably like Aquinas best to be honest, he's a thinker, although I like Erasmus the best out of any thinker or RC scholar at the moment, I know that he's out of favour though. I also think St. Theresa (The Interior Castle?) is a good read. It depends what you're looking for. There's a good book on Christian Spirituality, not perfect but it is one of the overviews that I know of http://www.amazon.co.uk/Christian-Sp...d=8RFS8ZOFCDZN

    Yes. I was watch a program on Mexico, and they have such devotion to the virgin of Guadalupe (sp?). They interviewed a female cliff diver, and she explained that she prayed so "Nothing bad would happen." So then she dove, and she was injured, flailing around in the water. After she was treated by her coach, she could move her arm, and they took this as sign of faith that she'd been spared worse harm. Well why not spare her altogether?
    Why not kill her altogether? I dont test God or make demands, I dont think prayer is meant to be like that.

    I'm not sure what you mean by me having a shallow appreciation of Christian tradition, as if I dipped just my toe into the Baptismal or never read a single book on European history. You shall have to prove that point. Why do you think they survive? Of course, we know it is only because of God's love, and not because Muslims or Christians ever touched anyone with the sword.
    If their survival was guaranteed by violence alone then Communism, Fascism and Capitalism would have eclipsed those creeds long ago and they'd be a distant memory like the Delphic oracles.

    I say you have a shallow appreciation because while you seem to have been a bit of a spiritual "shopper" you're more enamoured with contemporary culture, including its views on sciences too.

    So what your say is that this is just a phase, whereupon we will be more Christian again...like in the dark ages when the church was in charge?

    Sounds lovely. Let's hold science back for another 1000 years. Indeed, let's go back to surgery without anesthesia and bubonic plague.
    Was the Church in charge during the so called dark ages?

    The history books which I have read suggest anything but the Church being in control, the monastaries perserved the books and learning and scholastic traditions behind fortifications while the world went through a series of upheavels created by power struggles between tribes, monarchs, mercenaries and war lords.

    Or perhaps you're not refering to the historical time period but a culturally defined epoch typified by superstition? It is the tendency among most of the supposedly enlightened critics of religion, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, what is often refered to as the worst superstition and most costly in lives lost as torture didnt occur at that time at all but came later at the end of the rennaisance and beginning of the so called enlightenment.

    Why would the Church hold back science? The Church only opposes science when it engages in unconscienable acts, like the Nazi experiments upon "subhumans" or Kavorkian's death machines and suicide on tap or the like.

    If you happen to ever get any of the old top trumphs decks of game cards which are halloween or horror packs they have the "mad preachers" or religious zealot characters but equally they have the "mad scientist" and this sort of common place or common sensical reaction against either has disappeared to be frank. Science can do no ill and religion is too often in the dock.

  2. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Further, Lark, I was raised Methodist during my childhood.

    In high school I wandered and explored humanism and world religions.

    Then I came back. I went to Southern Baptist church, but I was an officer my campus Wesley Foundation.

    I went to several denominations.

    I went Roman Catholic mass for a while, and then I went through their classes to convert in my early 30's. I was a participant in Cursillo de Cristianidad movement, and went into prisons twice with Kairos.

    Maybe you are the one who doesn't understand Christian doctrine or Christians.

    The difficulty with Christian doctrine is that there are so many different ones. So I could be in error in your book whether or not I actually heard that message in a Christian church. Maybe the minister I heard was wrong in your book.

    You haven't...as far as I know...identified which doctrines you are using. Are you using the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or some other book? Are you a Catholic priest? What is your background? Explain which part you don't like. Feel free to educate me.

    All you did was say, in essence, that my opinions about hats are immature and that I'm too stupid to understand Christian doctrine, even though Jesus says the little child can understand it. Yet you really didn't address any of my questions.

    However, it really doesn't matter, as you said, my heroic little adventure does not matter. I am a miniscule thing in a vast universe. I'll buy that.

    One thing I think I do understand is animal care, however. I worked in a primate facility with 1200 monkeys, feeding them, and cleaning their poop, and holding them for the veterinarian when the hurt one another. I worked there two months. I also worked in a veterinary hospital for three months.

    I've worked about 12 years in the aquaculture industry, and for the last six years, I've taken care of 200,000 fish per year. At a previous job, I supervised people who took care of 40 million fish per year.

    I cannot figure out the ark story. Last night I spent a little more time looking at it. I even found a site with a scale model, supposedly. This was a website for teaching children the TRUTH of the story. I read their facts, and I just don't buy it...as a biologist.

    Of course, with "supernatural" intervention, anything is possible I suppose...even though we don't see that today.

    But, like you said, it doesn't matter.
    You really are an INFP. Of that I'm very sure.

    I'm a practicing Roman Catholic member of the laity, I have participated in a year long programme of intentional community and contemplative prayer with the Jesuits before now, I'm influenced by a lot of things and have read very widely in world religions, humanism and Christianity.

    Like I said before I think your opinions are a mix of voguish cliches.

  3. #323
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You really are an INFP. Of that I'm very sure.

    I'm a practicing Roman Catholic member of the laity, I have participated in a year long programme of intentional community and contemplative prayer with the Jesuits before now, I'm influenced by a lot of things and have read very widely in world religions, humanism and Christianity.

    Like I said before I think your opinions are a mix of voguish cliches.

    Okay, that's fine. I've touched, but not necessarily understood most of the authors I mentioned.

    In regard to Catholicism, I come via the Fransiscans, who were working to educate poor African-Americans when I lived in Mississippi. So it's more the flavor of "The little flowers." I went out with a gay monk, in fact. Swallow that for a second.

    St. Benedict can shove his rules. I think "The spiritual exercises" is too anal as well.

    MY FAVORITE is Anthony de Mello's "Awareness: The perils and opportunities of reality". So it follows that you are "arguing" or "brow-beating" a ghost to death. Worse, I can explore Krishnamurti's total absence of thought, if I wish, so I can just disappear there...or go places via Buddhism where thought is just flickering little birds. Sometimes I vacation there for my health...though I use science at work.

    Now I'm a member of five different local Free-thought discussion groups, mainly so that I can "socialize" with NTs, which naturally, I find both disgusting and alluring at the same time.

    You should probably just write me off as being utterly insane, and not just stupid, from your point of view.

  4. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Okay, that's fine. I've touched, but not necessarily understood most of the authors I mentioned.

    In regard to Catholicism, I come via the Fransiscans, who were working to educate poor African-Americans when I lived in Mississippi. So it's more the flavor of "The little flowers." I went out with a gay monk, in fact. Swallow that for a second.

    St. Benedict can shove his rules. I think "The spiritual exercises" is too anal as well.

    MY FAVORITE is Anthony de Mello's "Awareness: The perils and opportunities of reality". So it follows that you are "arguing" or "brow-beating" a ghost to death. Worse, I can explore Krishnamurti's total absence of thought, if I wish, so I can just disappear there...or go places via Buddhism where thought is just flickering little birds. Sometimes I vacation there for my health...though I use science at work.

    Now I'm a member of five different local Free-thought discussion groups, mainly so that I can "socialize" with NTs, which naturally, I find both disgusting and alluring at the same time.

    You should probably just write me off as being utterly insane, and not just stupid, from your point of view.
    I dont think you're insane or stupid, I just think you're perfectly in tune with the times.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    I apologize.

    It doesn't really matter that much, and my reaction has little to do with you...I realize.

    And Lark is right, my personal heroic saga, or whatever, is like ripples on the ocean. It doesn't matter. In a 100 years all of us posting here will be dead, and maybe even lost to memory, our debates forgotten, our bones rotting just like the bones of billions of humans before us, Christian or not.

    I retire from all debate. I concede. Largely because it doesn't matter at all.

    Edit:

    I also agree with you about context, which is why I immediately stopped over there and started here.

    But actually, it doesn't matter over here either.

    I think your stance of just seeing things differently is perfectly fine. I have more important things to deal with.
    ...and bigger fish to fry.

    P.S., ty. (:

  6. #326
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think you're insane or stupid, I just think you're perfectly in tune with the times.
    That may be true. I may just need to move to (or visit) a "blue area" of the map, but I chose a profession which is usually in "red areas."

    Most blue areas are more urban.

    I think what you say is true in general, but I have to drive at least an hour to make it to the nearest "blue" area. I think (obviously) that cities tend to be more Democratic, progressive, and liberal in their values.

    There are even oases in Texas...near Dallas and Houston.

    But this country elected Bush twice based largely on "values". So what's in vogue, as you say, depends largely where you are living and what your up-bringing has been. It's almost a 50/50 polarization.

    Where I live...my liberalism so so far "out of vogue" that I could scarcely find an society at all, unless I drove to these free-thought groups or pretended in church. I've been without socialization with peers for five or six years, so I'm starting to venture out again. On the whole, I may be contemporary, but I'm also a unique, eccentric-desert-unicorn-hermit.

  7. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    That may be true. I may just need to move to (or visit) a "blue area" of the map, but I chose a profession which is usually in "red areas."

    Most blue areas are more urban.

    I think what you say is true in general, but I have to drive at least an hour to make it to the nearest "blue" area. I think (obviously) that cities tend to be more Democratic, progressive, and liberal in their values.

    There are even oases in Texas...near Dallas and Houston.

    But this country elected Bush twice based largely on "values". So what's in vogue, as you say, depends largely where you are living and what your up-bringing has been. It's almost a 50/50 polarization.

    Where I live...my liberalism so so far "out of vogue" that I could scarcely find an society at all, unless I drove to these free-thought groups or pretended in church. I've been without socialization with peers for five or six years, so I'm starting to venture out again. On the whole, I may be contemporary, but I'm also a unique, eccentric-desert-unicorn-hermit.
    There conservative enclaves but the overall culture is attuned perfectly to your opinions. Its global too. Secularism dwarfs conservatism, which is itself different from traditionalism, in some ways I think conservatism as it is exists as a function of the over arching secularism which has villified it and keeps it around as the villain of the piece. Conservatives dont mind playing the part either.

  8. #328
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    ...and bigger fish to fry.

    P.S., ty. (:
    Eh, I'm bored, but too busy to seek society...at the moment.

    Yesterday I worked 22 hours sorting and counting 5400 fish for a customer order...with only tiny breaks for noodles...so YES it involves fish...but not frying them

    It's generally pointless to discuss if someone doesn't want to discuss back. Yet...to just try to discuss with you brings up visions of stomping flowers for no reason. I just... I don't want to feel bad, and if I'm feeling bad, well I just sever the action which is hurting me...which is always my own mind. (If I can.)

    I've basically been awake for 35 hours straight at this point...because...yes...despite posting I've been busy at work. Insanely busy...because after working 22 hours, I took a two hour break and went back to work...

    I still think of things to discuss with you (or other Christians), but I do not feel there is much to be actually gain except for he enjoyment of discussing in itself. And if mutual enjoyment is lacking, then I don't really see any point.

    I keep secret tools, and one of which is the well-wishing for the foe, for if I wish my foe well, then their power to upset me is broken, and I am free. Holding anything against another does myself harm, whether the other person is right or not. I forgive even if it is in my own mind only.

    I'm not sure what "ty" means. I found several definitions.

  9. #329
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    I think the idea of jesus and what it does for famillies is great. I just don't understand the exact foundation and motive.
    1+1=3 OMFG

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    The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power.
    Nikola Tesla

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