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Thread: There is no God

  1. #201
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    You can't 'logic your way past that point' because there is nothing beyond that point. However, the least we can ask is that explanations of the beginning of universe avoid basic logical errors. It may be that the Big Bang was not the beginning of the universe, but if it was, then there was nothing 'before' the Big Bang, because time didn't exist before the Big Bang. The timeline begins with the Big Bang: no befores allowed. You might as well ask 'what came before there was such thing as before?'

    It's like people who ask 'What's outside the universe?' They may as well be asking 'What's an exception to everything?' There is no exception to everything, there is no outside to the universe, there is no creator of everything, and there is no before the universe.

    NOTE: the word 'universe' traditionally just means everything. It is sometimes used to mean something slightly different in modern physics, but here I am using the term in its classical sense.
    That's horribly confining. I'M SUFFOCATING!

  2. #202
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjgy-7PViUA"]Relevant[/YOUTUBE]
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #203
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Foreplay View Post
    1. There is no Theistic God.

    2. You hate the effects that the belief in Theistic Gods causes.


    Of course, only the first is necessary (and strictly, it is not) I can explain this if you'd like - the latter is merely common, and for good reason I think.

    On another note, those who are quoting the Bible should first tell us why it's a good source for knowledge about God. I'm going to read through the 12 pages now; I just wanted to clear that up
    Nerd Girl,

    You have an answer to everything that is said to you. I wish you would use a source that wasn't question-begging. That is, literally every one of your posts that I have seen presupposes your being correct as an assumption - using the fact that you are correct to explain why you are correct. That's not useful.

    I assert that God is Necessarily irrelevant to ethics - to what is good, or if he is not, than that we could never know the difference between ANY good act or ANY evil act
    It appears you barged in here demanding *I* (out of all of the folks here) provide *you* proof that God exists and an explanation as to why I posted Bible scriptures. The Bible is the #1 selling book in the world; approximately 100 million copies are sold every week. It is a credible source of information. Take it or leave it. I choose to take it. I make no apologies for that nor did I stuff it down your throat.

    Then, you make the smartass remark that I have an answer to everything. Normally I do, LOL, but not in this thread, no sir. So I wonder, how is it possible that you know that about me because I have never seen or talked to you before? I can only assume you're stalking me. ...I'm kidding.

    Seriously, I can only assume you're talking about the Bible scriptures I quoted at the beginning of the thread. So for clarification, I don't have all of the answers do I? More accurately, my answers came out of the Bible and that's why you're here, isn't it?

    I would like to direct you to your own personal online edition of the Bible, where you can search and find the answers to all of your questions, http://www.bible.com.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Foreplay View Post
    I have a question that should explain this. I am asking it to all Christians and believers of a conscious creator who still intervenes in affairs. My question to you is Socrates' to Euthyphro: What is good, and ethical, and right? More specifically, what is God's relation to it? More specifically still, do we know what is good because God tells us, or does God love what is good, so that there is a sort of harmony?
    Socrates' to Euthyphro? (I don't understand your question.)

  4. #204
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraska View Post
    That wasn't what I said. You are avoiding the question. What I said is that the atheists, agnostics or whatever you call youself came up with the conclusion that there is no God without even having the most basic answers. This is what I find naive.
    The answer to the question you are calling basic is literally impossible to get to. You can't get to it either. So, you come to the conclusion that there IS a God "without even having the most basic answers" as well.

    All I'm trying to say is that the "what happened before the beginning of the universe" question is absurd -- it doesn't help either side of the God debate whatsoever. I'm not trying to use it as evidence against God, I'm just trying to show you it isn't evidence FOR God. At least hold your arguments to the same standards you hold mine to.

  5. #205
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    There is no reason to think that we are capable of conveying the right ideas to explain the event.
    This is my biggest problem with the Theist stance. You're giving up.

    We might not be able to know everything, but we should at least try to maximize our descriptive efficiency. Saying that some things are just too awesome to convey is a philosophy that ends exploration.

  6. #206
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Interesting fact:

    Studies have shown that the more people invest feelings into different theories and base beliefs on them, the more convinced they are that the theories are true.

    This is true to both god believers and non believers.

    WHY does it matter so much if the person you're talking to believes in God or not.

    WHY ?

  7. #207
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    To me this is proof that we don't know if there is a God or not:








    The mere SIZE of the universe tends to point that it's not spinning around us, we're not that special and that if there were another being somewhere we'd have no fucking clue it exists and that other being would have no clue we exist either.
    It would be also absurd to assume that this huge chunk of space was made for us or anything else, or that we have any kind of significant role in it.

    It's just there and we don't know why.

    (The comoving distance from Earth to the edge of the observable universe is about 14 billion parsecs (46 billion, or 4.6 × 10(that's supposed to be a smaller 10 on top)10, light years) in any direction. The observable universe is thus a sphere with a diameter of about 29 billion parsecs[15] (93 billion, or 9.3 × 1010, light years)[16]. Assuming that space is roughly flat, this size corresponds to a comoving volume of about 3.5 × 1080 cubic meters. This is equivalent to a volume of about 410 nonillion cubic light-years (4.1 × 1032 cubic light years) ) - Wikipedia So yeah it's fucking big.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    I like to look at things from this perspective.

    There is no God, and everything evolved from something else and the universe is basically experiencing itself through life forms.

    The atoms get to form life, and life gets to be conscious, and bang, what was once a chunk of fucking rock is now thinking and asking questions.

    Interesting

    Will the life forms get to know any of the secrets of this vast chunk of empty space?

  8. #208
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    So the theory of opposites implicitly existing stops because of illogical creation? That's cool. I suppose you can't invent logic, but you can invent a logical meaning. I usually do say that we don't invent, but discover. I suppose I should concede my argument then .

    That is true yes.
    I guess one argument I could give about how logic is discovered not invented is to point to some of the considerable parallels between Western and Indian logic. But I'll stop there, since Indian philosophy is still a relative new field for me.

    But this might be of interest, since it talks about the basic workings of the intellect and how it relates to knowing god:
    [youtube="AG7QAEAZYlk"]Human intellect[/youtube]

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Hmm... I need to find some nice INFJ boy to settle down with and create insane NF babies with.
    Oh dear.

  9. #209
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    This is my biggest problem with the Theist stance. You're giving up.

    We might not be able to know everything, but we should at least try to maximize our descriptive efficiency. Saying that some things are just too awesome to convey is a philosophy that ends exploration.
    You're just assuming that I'm giving up. I'm more interested in science than most people and as for my more metaphysical interests, I persue those as well. There are just... technical difficulties.

    Honestly I don't think a professed or decided belief in God really changes much about how a person relates to the world in the ways that matter.

  10. #210
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    You're just assuming that I'm giving up. I'm more interested in science than most people and as for my more metaphysical interests, I persue those as well. There are just... technical difficulties.

    Honestly I don't think a professed or decided belief in God really changes much about how a person relates to the world in the ways that matter.
    I'm confused then. Are you saying you try as hard as you can to understand everything, and then everything else is God? I guess that does make sense, although it seems like you would have less incentive to explore what you've assigned to the God category.

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