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Thread: There is no God

  1. #131
    Sniffles
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    There is a distinction between primary and secondary causes, with the first cause being the most primary one. The universe cannot be its own cause, and the Big Bang is not the same thing as creation - as noted by Fr. Lemaître himself( i.e. the man who developed the Big Bang theory in the first place). Perhaps it should also be noted that Aquinas operated under the presumption of an eternal universe.

    So there's some real fundamental misunderstandings here.

  2. #132
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There is a distinction between primary and secondary causes, with the first cause being the most primary one. The universe cannot be its own cause, and the Big Bang is not the same thing as creation - as noted by Fr. Lemaître himself( i.e. the man who developed the Big Bang theory in the first place). Perhaps it should also be noted that Aquinas operated under the presumption of an eternal universe.

    So there's some real fundamental misunderstandings here.
    I might be misusing the term "the big bang", but it's not relevant anyway. If we assume there's a first cause, we can call it whatever -- lets call it x. So the statement "x is the first cause" is true. Stick God in there -- I'm fine with that. Stick the big bang in there -- I'm fine with that, too. But when you ask "what caused x", you go into infinite regress mode and it stops being a useful thing to talk about. I was just saying that I have a problem with people that stick God in there and then say "what caused x?" to me when I put something else in there.

  3. #133
    A Mystery Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
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    I agree, there is no god.
    Always forward, never back!

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  4. #134
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I might be misusing the term "the big bang", but it's not relevant anyway. If we assume there's a first cause, we can call it whatever -- lets call it x. So the statement "x is the first cause" is true. Stick God in there -- I'm fine with that. Stick the big bang in there -- I'm fine with that, too. But when you ask "what caused x", you go into infinite regress mode and it stops being a useful thing to talk about. I was just saying that I have a problem with people that stick God in there and then say "what caused x?" to me when I put something else in there.
    The first cause for all intents and purposes is god; if you want to call it X or supernatural nova or Green Latern, it's the same concept. Aquinas would note that "god" is the most common name given to the first cause, so therefore to reach out to all rational people 'god' is the best term to use. But this is all semantics in the end.

    Asking what caused the first cause, aka god, is a rather silly question:
    [youtube="KLclpslxAYY"]What caused x?[/youtube]

  5. #135
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I might be misusing the term "the big bang", but it's not relevant anyway. If we assume there's a first cause, we can call it whatever -- lets call it x. So the statement "x is the first cause" is true. Stick God in there -- I'm fine with that. Stick the big bang in there -- I'm fine with that, too. But when you ask "what caused x", you go into infinite regress mode and it stops being a useful thing to talk about. I was just saying that I have a problem with people that stick God in there and then say "what caused x?" to me when I put something else in there.
    Peguy says it better, but your mistake is that there is no infinite regress mode with God. God IS the infinite regress. God the original substance everything comes from.
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  6. #136
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The first cause for all intents and purposes is god; if you want to call it X or supernatural nova or Green Latern, it's the same concept. Aquinas would note that "god" is the most common name given to the first cause, so therefore to reach out to all rational people 'god' is the best term to use. But this is all semantics in the end.
    Then I'm pretty sure our stances are perfectly consistent with each other.

    Asking what caused the first cause, aka god, is a rather silly question
    My point exactly.

    I use a narrative in which the word "God" has no meaning, so I would word it differently, but yeah, it's just semantics. If I were to define God as "the first cause", I could have exactly the same worldview and believe in God. (I don't know what he would have been doing for the last 15 billion years, though...)

  7. #137
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Peguy says it better, but you're mistake is that there is no infinite regress mode with God. God IS the infinite regress. God the original substance everything comes from.
    Do you know what infinite regress is? (I really don't mean this to be offensive.)

  8. #138
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I have some idea.....
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  10. #140
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    Vicous regress: "an attempt to solve a problem which re-introduced the same problem in the proposed solution. If one continues along the same lines, the initial problem will recur infinitely and will never be solved. Not all regresses, however, are vicious."


    this goes hand in hand with "BEATING HEAD AGAINST WALL"
    Im out, its been fun

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