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Thread: There is no God

  1. #121
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraska View Post
    There is no evidence against God because your "evidence" can't answer even one basic question. What was before the Big Bang. And considering that we don't even have the starting point all the studies that Physics does are useless and can only be used to create even more weapons.
    God doesn't solve that problem at all. If God created the universe, what created God? Either you answer:
    a) God wasn't created, he always existed. (to which I respond, okay, then if things can always exist, why can't the universe have always existed?)
    b) God was the first thing to exist, he came from nothing. (to which I respond, why couldn't the universe come from nothing?)
    or c) God created time. (to which I respond, why couldn't the big bang have created time?)

    The problem is the question itself -- what was before the big bang -- it's set up to be unanswerable or to cause infinite regress.

  2. #122
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    God doesn't solve that problem at all. If God created the universe, what created God? Either you answer:
    a) God wasn't created, he always existed. (to which I respond, okay, then if things can always exist, why can't the universe have always existed?)
    b) God was the first thing to exist, he came from nothing. (to which I respond, why couldn't the universe come from nothing?)
    or c) God created time. (to which I respond, why couldn't the big bang have created time?)
    All your propositions (questions) assume the premise that the universe = God, which is false.

    The universe != God.
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  3. #123
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    "God is dead." - Nietzsche

    " Nietzsche is dead. " - God
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    " The bird of paradise alights only on the hand that does not grasp." - John Berry

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    He is an agnostic. That means the answer to your question is 'no'.
    Mama mia. I got it!

    Nobody is leaving this thread mad, which means, as long as Victor is chill, we're good to go.

  5. #125
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    All your propositions assume the premise that the universe = God, which is false.

    The universe != God.
    What relationship does God have with the universe? Kraska implied that God created the universe, which at least puts God in the position to interact with things like universes.

    I also wasn't assuming that (God == the universe) is true, I was just saying that the same problems arise when you put God at the beginning as opposed to putting the big bang at the beginning. "What is the cause of the first cause?" is the implied question, and using God as an out just doesn't help answer it.

  6. #126
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    God doesn't solve that problem at all. If God created the universe, what created God? Either you answer:
    a) God wasn't created, he always existed. (to which I respond, okay, then if things can always exist, why can't the universe have always existed?)
    b) God was the first thing to exist, he came from nothing. (to which I respond, why couldn't the universe come from nothing?)
    or c) God created time. (to which I respond, why couldn't the big bang have created time?)

    The problem is the question itself -- what was before the big bang -- it's set up to be unanswerable or to cause infinite regress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    What relationship does God have with the universe? Kraska implied that God created the universe, which at least puts God in the position to interact with things like universes.

    I also wasn't assuming that (God == the universe) is true, I was just saying that the same problems arise when you put God at the beginning as opposed to putting the big bang at the beginning. "What is the cause of the first cause?" is the implied question, and using God as an out just doesn't help answer it.
    But why do the same problems arise if we agree the universe != God.? If God is Omni, there is no problem...
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #127
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But why do the same problems arise if we agree the universe != God.? If God is Omni, there is no problem...
    I was assuming the real "problem" is "what is the cause of the first cause?"
    The Big Bang is as flimsy an answer as God creating the universe, because the question is set up in such a way that infinite regress is unavoidable. So I conclude that the question is the issue, not the possible answers.

    I must admit I'm not sure exactly what your logic here is, though. I may be misinterpreting your stance. Can you explain how God not being the same as the universe solves the infinite regress issue?

  8. #128
    Sniffles
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    A first cause doesn't have a cause, if it did it obviously wouldn't be the first cause.

  9. #129
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    I dont understand the statement. No one can prove nor disprove...why dont we just all do the logical thing. Try to make it through life with the thought of letting everyone enjoy there time on earth. That means to love, to smile, to laugh, to enjoy yourself, and everything that is not that, learn ot let go of. Since I cannot prove nor disprove, I choose not to take a side. I look at religion objectively, see its shortcomings and what it really brings(the good parts) to society. I dont see why "whether god exists" plays any role...I am who I am....but then again, thats why I believe what I believe.

    We cant let go of school, or learning because if we did we would still ive in huts. Also people enjoy it, so we cant take that away...the solutions..."live and let live". Do what you enjoy, allow others to benefit from your enjoyment...its a twist on pay it forward.


    edit: I kinda sound like a hippy...lol
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #130
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    A first cause doesn't have a cause, if it did it obviously wouldn't be the first cause.
    Right, that's my point. Since we have to accept that the first cause is actually the first, it's silly to ask what caused the big bang. Once you go down that road, saying something like "God caused the big bang", you've opened yourself up to the infinite regress.

    I have no logical problem with someone saying God created the universe, I just have a problem when a person with that stance would have a problem with the stance that the big bang created the universe, since it's the same logic.

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