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The Value of Heaven for Christians?

Giggly

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I gotta say that it seems like some Christians live their lives just waiting to die so that they can go to heaven. From what I gather from bible teachings, we're all sinners (and I do agree that no one's perfect) and we walk among our fellow man who are also deprived, all of us living a deprived life here on earth, like we're in the dregs. Our only saving grace is that we can go to heaven when we die, provided that we believe in God and serve him.

:huh:

So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?
 

prplchknz

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Giggly;1761171[/quote said:
So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?
this sort of sounds like a cop-out to me personally. it's like saying life is going to suck no matter what I do, so I'm going to sit here and refuse to make changes.
 

Giggly

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So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?
this sort of sounds like a cop-out to me personally. it's like saying life is going to suck no matter what I do, so I'm going to sit here and refuse to make changes.

Yeah, it does to me too sometimes, but it also sound a bit miserable if it's not a cop out. I don't see how you could ever really care about your fellow man if you think so lowly of yourself and them.
 

prplchknz

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Yeah, it does to me too sometimes, but it also sound a bit miserable if it's not a cop out. I don't see how you could ever really care about your fellow man if you think so lowly of yourself and them.

it's not about thinking lowly or highly of anyone. well it is, but that's not what i was reffering to.if you're life is great and you believe in heaven great. I'm saying if you're life is miserable and you believe in heaven and that's why you're not doing anything about it, maybe you need to reassess
 

bluestripes

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for me, personally, heaven is a location where growth can be endless and a human being - that is, the very core that will remain after that which is insignificant and temporary is stripped away - can become more and more god-like, closer to our creator, as it were. since this can never be fully attained, the process can continue for eternity. and there will no longer be any obstacles to communicating with god (such as sins, selfishness, tainted and unhealthy passions or the nature of our bodies, which are not yet transfigured/sanctified and act as a screen between our "self" and the spiritual realm).

i think, if one looks at many aspects of this world, all that awe-inspiring complexity and aesthetic value one can find in nature... one can catch a little glimpse of what god can do. and if one tries to imagine what the one who created this should be like, it just leaves one speechless. so perhaps heaven will be that wonderstruck feeling, similar to an inner lightning, but multiplied by an infinite number of times. to me it is.

edit: not sure if i qualify as a person of strong faith. i'm sure there are many people whose faith is much stronger than mine, and i go to church only once in several months. but i do pray daily for various simple matters and i cannot quite imagine what it would be like without that sense of god being close.
 

Lightyear

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So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?

Nope, I am a Bible-believing Christian and I certainly don't live like this. After I started believing in God and became a Christian suddenly all the things around me gained value because they are reflecting God, especially people because they are made in the image of God. My faith is what makes me keep on going in this world (I think if I had stayed an atheist I would have been suicidal by now because everything would seem so meaningless), I believe that there is meaning and a higher reason for this world existing and things in my life happening, I don't believe that men's limited power is all we have in this world, God has the last word.

Edit: I find life with God far more adventurous, after my conversion several crazy "coincidences" happened in my life and I feel like I can see life from a different, far more spiritual and holistic perspective. Heaven is the finish line but certainly not something my mind is focussed on a lot.
 

Giggly

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Nope, I am a Bible-believing Christian and I certainly don't live like this. After I started believing in God and became a Christian suddenly all the things around me gained value because they are reflecting God, especially people because they are made in the image of God. My faith is what makes me keep on going in this world (I think if I had stayed an atheist I would have been suicidal by now because everything would seem so meaningless), I believe that there is meaning and a higher reason for this world existing and things in my life happening, I don't believe that men's limited power is all we have in this world, God has the last word.

I like this way of thinking a lot better. Thank you so much for sharing.
 

iwakar

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I gotta say that it seems like some Christians live their lives just waiting to die so that they can go to heaven. From what I gather from bible teachings, we're all sinners (and I do agree that no one's perfect) and we walk among our fellow man who are also deprived, all of us living a deprived life here on earth, like we're in the dregs. Our only saving grace is that we can go to heaven when we die, provided that we believe in God and serve him.

:huh:

So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?

My devout grandmother's increased talk of her "reward in Heaven" is directly proportionate to her advancing years. I think this is a relevant observation. When our mortality looms near, under any circumstances, it is human nature to consider more pointedly what --if anything-- lies beyond.
 

Giggly

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My devout grandmother's increased talk of her "reward in Heaven" is directly proportionate to her advancing years. I think this is a relevant observation. When our mortality looms near, under any circumstances, it is human nature to consider more pointedly what --if anything-- lies beyond.

Yes, I've seen that too with old folks and I totally understand that. I was wondering more about the younger ones I saw doing that.
 

iwakar

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Yes, I've seen that too with old folks and I totally understand that. I was wondering more about the younger ones I saw doing that.

I can honestly say I haven't known of any devout, Christian young people that seemed preoccupied with Heaven --moreso with contemporary morality. I'm sure they're out there, but I don't think they're common. I think you'll have trouble getting even a handful here with that explicit perspective.
 

Giggly

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I can honestly say I haven't known of any devout, Christian young people that seemed preoccupied with Heaven --moreso with contemporary morality. I'm sure they're out there, but I don't think they're common. I think you'll have trouble getting even a handful here with that explicit perspective.

Ahh, good to know.
 

King sns

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My values/ beliefs are loosely correlated to Christian values and beliefs because I don't really know another way, it's my original framework, it's very hard to rewire the neurons to think of spirituality in terms of things that don't somehow relate to Christianity. Some days, I guess you could even just call me a Christian. (Yeah, sounds like an oxymoron, Christians can't be Christians on some days.)

Anyways, I don't take everything so literally and have many thoughts on the matter, including the possibility that your soul on Earth has potential for heaven, purgatory, and hell. I see potential for heaven and hell in people's eyes before me every day. I think that people could possibly have a soul the ability to reach some kind of a salvation/oneness/ near-perfection or deep, endless suffering and pain all while being alive- and that could be heaven and hell. And I'm not thinking of physical perfection vs. suffering, I'm just thinking of that which could happen to ones inner core being, which could potentially be faltered by many of the actions that Christians call "sins" for reasons that it is hard for the human mind to understand. This is not a full blown belief for me. One of many possibilities that I consider on the matter. So the end goal is not "don't sin, follow these rules or you'll go to hell", the goal is to understand what it means for your soul to be left nearly pure at the end of the day.
 

miss fortune

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I grew up surrounded by people who attend church every week at least once and will pray at the drop of a hat... I never really hear any of them talk about heaven though :thinking: the funny thing is that some of them are liberals and some conservatives but they ALL focus on life on earth right now and how they feel that it could be improved for everyone with a dash of God thrown in... no, I never heard any of them talk about heaven though, no matter how old they get... (and I'm a rural midwesterner!)
 

Giggly

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I grew up surrounded by people who attend church every week at least once and will pray at the drop of a hat... I never really hear any of them talk about heaven though :thinking: the funny thing is that some of them are liberals and some conservatives but they ALL focus on life on earth right now and how they feel that it could be improved for everyone with a dash of God thrown in... no, I never heard any of them talk about heaven though, no matter how old they get... (and I'm a rural midwesterner!)

Yes! That's exactly how I grew up too. But the line of thought I talked about in the OP is different (and new to me). I'm finding it hard to understand and digest. I had no idea people thought that way.

I guess one could say that it's impossible to separate God and heaven, if you really think about it, but I don't know. It's all too complicated to me. lol
 

miss fortune

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Yes! That's exactly how I grew up too. But the line of thought I talked about in the OP is different (and new to me). I'm finding it hard to understand and digest. I had no idea people thought that way.

I guess one could say that it's impossible to separate God and heaven, if you really think about it, but I don't know. It's all too complicated to me. lol

that is a strange belief that I don't think that I've ever run across before :thinking:

odd to think of what could be separated and what cannot in the world of religious debate... I'm not particularly religious, so it's not something I normally ponder :laugh:
 

Giggly

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that is a strange belief that I don't think that I've ever run across before :thinking:

odd to think of what could be separated and what cannot in the world of religious debate... I'm not particularly religious, so it's not something I normally ponder :laugh:

I'm not religious either and I don't normally ponder it either but sometimes it comes to my attention by other people.
 

Lark

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I gotta say that it seems like some Christians live their lives just waiting to die so that they can go to heaven. From what I gather from bible teachings, we're all sinners (and I do agree that no one's perfect) and we walk among our fellow man who are also deprived, all of us living a deprived life here on earth, like we're in the dregs. Our only saving grace is that we can go to heaven when we die, provided that we believe in God and serve him.

:huh:

So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?

I wouldnt agree, its not that way for Rob Bell or Tolstoy for instance, Tolstoy for definite wouldnt even really be drawn on whether or not he was certain of an afterlife, he said instead that this was not why he choose to exercise an option for Christianity, his motivation was because he couldnt stand the meaninglessness, pessimism and misery of his non-Christian fellows and secularism.
 

Lark

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that is a strange belief that I don't think that I've ever run across before :thinking:

odd to think of what could be separated and what cannot in the world of religious debate... I'm not particularly religious, so it's not something I normally ponder :laugh:

This sort of thinking isnt reserved to religion though, its evident in politics and money management philosophies too, for instance the bigger the bank account the more things or experiences costing money people have passed up to accumulate that, in politics it could be sacrificing all for a distant promised good times or utopian vision.
 

Coriolis

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I gotta say that it seems like some Christians live their lives just waiting to die so that they can go to heaven. From what I gather from bible teachings, we're all sinners (and I do agree that no one's perfect) and we walk among our fellow man who are also deprived, all of us living a deprived life here on earth, like we're in the dregs. Our only saving grace is that we can go to heaven when we die, provided that we believe in God and serve him.

:huh:

So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?
The possibility of eternal rewards in heaven was both carrot and stick in the hands of authoritarian regimes for generations throughout the Christian world. Pacified with promises of the afterlife, the lower classes had no expectation of improving their lot on earth, and were exhorted to mind their place and keep their noses to the grindstone lest their "pride" or "greed" land them in hell.

I have faith, though I am not Christian, and believe in an afterlife, though not what you or I am describing. I do not call it "heaven", and it is not a goal to be attained at the end of life. It is the simple continuation of the spirit after the demise of the flesh. I see it not as paradise, or a reward, but simply as a different phase of life, offering different opportunities for growth and learning.
 

Totenkindly

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So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?

If "strong faith" = positive life, I tend to see the ones who use heaven as an excuse to not live this life effectively to be the ones with weak faith -- they seem to be the most self-absorbed. The people who I see as having truly strong faith tend to be very focused on doing the right thing now and enduring whatever trials come their way; yes, they believe in heaven after, but it's not like a freebie prize. They want to please God and don't focus on the heaven thing that much.
 
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