User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 65

  1. #31

    Default

    Just on the topic of heaven, in the old and most of the new testament "heaven" was actually "the world to come" or, to rephrase, the future. It was situated in historical time and when spreading the good news or preaching to all nations or spreading the word was discussed it was as a means to reaching the future and realising heaven.

    It is only with the revelation of John that this changes, heaven is still going to happen in historical time, it will be established on earth but it is a process of unification of this world and some other worldly "heavenly" state of being.

    When Jesus talks about an afterlife, and there are accounts of his being questioned to try and tell if he believes in one or not because there where then as there are now those who dont profess to belive in an afterlife, human beings being animated dust given life by the breath of God and returning to inanimate dust afterwards.

    Some of his responses are pretty definite and appear to indicate that there is indeed an afterlife while others, and even these more affirmative passages, have been interpreted as metaphorical or parables, as earlier passages from the old testament were interpreted to be (such as repeated statements about God's prescence returning to his people, God pitching a tent among his people and walking around or angels doing so, at least in the case of angels it is a being, in the case of God it is not clear if it is a being or a spirit, in the cultural rather than personification sense of the word spirit).

    Death and dying is something I understand anyone would fear and mortality is horrific in its finality, I dont expect any afterlife to be like this one I'm living, so many of the pleasures of this life will be gone to me in any other one (although so will the pains realistically). Why does God demand that of human beings? I would find it a more difficult question to answer if I didnt belief that God had experienced it all first hand himself as Jesus and continues to experience it some how with each living, breathing being that's born and dies. Perhaps in that respect my conception of God is more Jungian than Christian or theist.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Hey, it's not an illusion. I've actually been there.

    They didn't let me in though. But I got close. Kind of.

    ..Whatever. Don't believe me.
    You don't know where you've been. You certainly got close to spirit. What kind is another matter.
    For the capacity of the mind to process after is too brilliant and there are no words to express the magnitude of it. Don't you see, any words that describe heaven and god are an illusion of the mind because it is of the mind. And what is of the mind is describable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Did the mind make gravity or an ordered cosmos? Yeah. What about that?
    The mind is our vehichle creating this life and naturally the illusions of this matrix will be deep. You misunderstand how I speak. Which is okay. You are too stuck in your mind and beliefs. Let go your mind and beliefs, then you won't be speaking from ego but directly from spirit. You won't need to find validity in scripture and literature then like its your salvation. When you become the full emodiment of your consciosness physically you will understand. Reality is far far different when your heart is christconscious and buddha conscious etc. Christians and religion in general have no clue, none! The limit, the box is there because you prebirthed what you wished to know and see.

  3. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    The mind is our vehichle creating this life and naturally the illusions of this matrix will be deep
    See whatever you had to smoke to reach this conclusion, you probably should stop it.

  4. #34
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    You don't know where you've been. You certainly got close to spirit. What kind is another matter.
    For the capacity of the mind to process after is too brilliant and there are no words to express the magnitude of it. Don't you see, any words that describe heaven and god are an illusion of the mind because it is of the mind. And what is of the mind is describable.
    But you don't know either. Yet, you always speak in such declarative terms and like to tell people what they see or don't see. It's kind of ironic.

    But maybe I was just joking in the first place. Or lying. Either/or. So my point is moot. Maybe.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    See whatever you had to smoke to reach this conclusion, you probably should stop it.
    And so it is that you are defensive.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    But you don't know either. Yet, you always speak in such declarative terms and like to tell people what they see or don't see. It's kind of ironic.

    But maybe I was just joking in the first place. Or lying. Either/or. So my point is moot. Maybe.
    I do actually. this too is defensive.

  7. #37
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    I do actually. this too is defensive.
    Your confidence is always evident. It kind of rubs me the wrong way, but to each their own/good luck.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Near hundred years ago G. I. Gurdjieff had stated an idea of the complexity of a concept “Man” as follows:

    “Once again let us take the idea man. In the language of which I speak, instead of the word “man”, seven words are used, namely: man number one, man number two, man number three, man number four, man number five, man number six, and man number seven. With these seven ideas people are already able to understand one another when speaking of man.

    Man number seven means a man who has reached the full development possible to man and who possesses everything a man can possess, that is, will, consciousness, permanent and unchangeable I, individuality, immortality, and many other properties which, in our blindness and ignorance, we ascribe to ourselves. It is only when to a certain extent we understand man number seven and his properties that we can under stand the gradual stages through which we can approach him, that is, understand the process of development possible for us.

    Man number six stands very close to man number seven. He differs from man number seven only by the fact that some of his properties have not as yet become permanent.

    Man number five is also for us an unattainable standard of man, for it is a man who has reached unity.

    Man number four is an intermediate stage. I shall speak of him later.

    Man number one, number two, and number three, these are people who constitute mechanical humanity on the same level on which they are born.

    Man number one means man in whom the center of gravity of his psychic life lies in the moving center. This is the man of the physical body, the man with whom the moving and the instinctive functions constantly outweigh the emotional and the thinking functions.

    Man number two means man on the same level of development, but man in whom the center of gravity of his psychic life lies in the emotional center, that is, man with whom the emotional functions outweigh all others; the man of feeling, the emotional man.

    Man number three means man on the same level of development but man in whom the center of gravity of his psychic life lies in the intellectual center, that is, man with whom the thinking functions gain the upper hand over the moving, instinctive, and emotional functions; the man of reason, who goes into everything from theories, from mental considerations.



    The division of man into seven categories, or seven numbers, explains thousands of things which otherwise cannot be understood. This division gives the first conception of relativity as applied to man. Things may be one thing or another thing according to the kind of man from whose point of view, or in relation to whom, they are taken.

    In accordance with this, all the inner and all the outer manifestations of man, all that belongs to man, and all that is created by him, is also divided into seven categories.

    It can now be said that there exists a knowledge number one, based upon imitation or upon instincts, or learned by heart, crammed or drilled into a man. Number one, if he is man number one in the full sense of the term, learns everything like a parrot or a monkey.

    The knowledge of man number two is merely the knowledge of what he likes; what he does not like he does not know. Always and in everything he wants something pleasant. Or, if he is a sick man, he will, on the contrary, know only what he dislikes, what repels him and what evokes in him fear, horror, and loathing.

    The knowledge of man number three is knowledge based upon subjectively logical thinking, upon words, upon literal understanding. It is the knowledge of bookworms, of scholastics. Men number three, for example, have counted how many times each letter of the Arabic alphabet is repeated in the Koran of Mohammed, and upon this have based a whole system of interpretation of the. Koran.

    The knowledge of man number four is a very different kind of knowledge. It is knowledge which comes from man number five, who in turn receives it from man number six, who has received it from man number seven. But, of course, man number four assimilates of this knowledge only what is possible according to his powers. But, in comparison with man number one, man number two, and man number three, man number four has begun to get free from the subjective elements in his knowledge and to move along the path towards objective knowledge.

    The knowledge of man number five is whole, indivisible knowledge. He has now one indivisible I and all his knowledge belongs to this I. He cannot have one I that knows something which another does not know. What he knows, the whole of him knows. His knowledge is nearer to objective knowledge than the knowledge of man number four.

    The knowledge of man number six is the complete knowledge possible to man; but it can still be lost.

    The knowledge of man number seven is his own knowledge, which cannot be taken away from him; it is the objective and completely practiced knowledge of All. "It is exactly the same with being. There is the being of man number one, that is, the being of a man living by his instincts and his sensations;

    the being of man number two, that is to say, the being of the sentimental, the emotional man; the being of man number three, that is, the being of the rational, the theoretical man, and so on. It is quite clear why knowledge cannot be far away from being. Man number one, two, or three cannot, by reason of his being, possess the knowledge of man number four, man number five, and higher. Whatever you may give him, he may interpret it in his own way, he will reduce every idea to the level on which he is himself.

    The same order of division into seven categories must be applied to everything relating to man. There is art number one, that is the art of man number one, imitative, copying art, or crudely primitive and sensuous art such as the dances and music of savage peoples. There is art number two, sentimental art; art number three, intellectual, invented art; and there must be art number four, number five, and so on.

    In exactly the same way there exists the religion of man number one, that is to say, a religion consisting of rites, of external forms, of sacrifices and ceremonies of imposing splendor and brilliance, or, on the contrary, of a gloomy, cruel, and savage character, and so on. There is the religion of man number two; the religion of faith, love, adoration, impulse, enthusiasm, which soon becomes transformed into the religion of persecution, oppression, and extermination of “heretics” and “heathens”. There is the religion of man number three; the intellectual, theoretical religion of proofs and arguments, based upon logical deductions, considerations, and interpretations. Religions number one, number two, and number three are really the only ones we know; all known and existing religions and denominations in the world belong to one of these three categories. What the religion of man number four or the religion of man number five and so on is, we do not know, and we cannot know so long as we remain what we are.

    If instead of religion in general we take Christianity, then again there exists a Christianity number one, that is to say, paganism in the guise of Christianity. Christianity number two is an emotional religion, sometimes very pure but without force, sometimes full of bloodshed and horror leading to the Inquisition, to religious wars. Christianity number three, instances of which are afforded by various forms of Protestantism, is based upon dialectic, argument, theories, and so forth. Then there is Christianity number four, of which men number one, number two, and number three have no conception whatever.

    In actual fact Christianity number one, number two, and number three is simply external imitation. Only man number four strives to be a Christian and only man number five can actually be a Christian. For to be a Christian means to have the being of a Christian, that is, to live in accordance with Christ's precepts.

    Man number one, number two, and number three cannot live in accordance with Christ's precepts because with them everything 'happens.' Today it is one thing and tomorrow it is quite another thing. Today they are ready to give away their last shirt and tomorrow to tear a man to pieces because he refuses to give up his shirt to them. They are swayed by every chance event. They are not masters of themselves and therefore they cannot decide to be Christians and really be Christians.

    Science, philosophy, and all manifestations of man's life and activity can be divided in exactly the same way into seven categories. But the ordinary language in which people speak is very far from any such divisions, and this is why it is so difficult for people to understand one another.”

    P. D. Ouspensky, “In Search of the Miraculous. Fragments of an Unknown Teaching.”
    This is a view.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Your confidence is always evident. It kind of rubs me the wrong way, but to each their own/good luck.
    Who can say hay, reality is a funny thing.

  10. #40
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    No God, No Master

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I gotta say that it seems like some Christians live their lives just waiting to die so that they can go to heaven. From what I gather from bible teachings, we're all sinners (and I do agree that no one's perfect) and we walk among our fellow man who are also deprived, all of us living a deprived life here on earth, like we're in the dregs. Our only saving grace is that we can go to heaven when we die, provided that we believe in God and serve him.
    So is that what it's like for people with strong faith? Life on earth just sucks no matter which way you slice it and heaven is what you really look forward to?
    Are we ends or means?

    Are we ends in ourselves or are we means to the ends of others?

    If we are part of God's Plan, we are means of God.

    So being a means of God prepares us psychologically to be the means of others.

    For instance, being a means of God we are primed to be a slave of a slave owner. As a slave is a means for a slave owner.

    And being a means of God we are primed to be a means for an employer.

    And being a means of God we are primed to be a means for our commanding officer.

    And a means has no dignity. A means lives a mean life, while being an end gives us self-respect and dignity.

    Yes, unless we are ends in ourselves, we become a means for the powerful. We become a means for God, our parents, our teachers our employers, and even our peer group.

    So no God, no master and we become ends in ourselves.

Similar Threads

  1. What Are The Types Of Characters For This Story?
    By Mondo in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-03-2008, 06:06 PM
  2. The value of random on-line personality tests
    By Ilah in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-26-2008, 08:33 PM
  3. The psychology of choice for President
    By LostInNerSpace in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-01-2008, 07:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO