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  1. #41
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Not really, for to be a Jewish Christian in the sense I mean could fall under the category of "Christ as the transformer of culture", where culture is transformed and baptised. In that case, culturally one remains Jewish but is religiously Christian.
    >>I mean could fall under the category of "Christ as the transformer of culture", where culture is transformed and baptised.

    >>culture is transformed and baptised.

    >>baptised.


    ...how is that different from becoming a Christian?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #42
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    >>I mean could fall under the category of "Christ as the transformer of culture", where culture is transformed and baptised.
    >>culture is transformed and baptised.
    >>baptised.

    ...how is that different from becoming a Christian?
    It isn't any different. They're Jews who become Christian, but maintain Jewish customs that don't contradict Christian teachings. Does that make sense? Kinda like how Germans maintained Yule trees, but they were baptised into Christmas trees. Or how Egyptian(Coptic) Christians still mummify the dead, to preserve the body for its resurrection on the last day.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This sounds like Dawkins's claims on the matter, about how he despises religion but still likes to hear Christmas carols and whatnot.
    Dawkins, Darren Brown, AC Grayling, they all top my eejit list to be honest.

  4. #44
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It isn't any different. They're Jews who become Christian, but maintain Jewish customs that don't contradict Christian teachings. Does that make sense? Kinda like how Germans maintained Yule trees, but they were baptised into Christmas trees. Or how Egyptian(Coptic) Christians still mummify the dead, to preserve the body for its resurrection on the last day.
    I think I figured out the source of confusion. The word "Jewish" can be used to describe either ethnic background or religious affiliation, which isn't the case for other ethnicities. So, for example, "Egyptian Christian" is a valid term, but if you say "Muslim Christian", that would be nonsensical.

    Would you agree?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  5. #45
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I think I figured out the source of confusion. The word "Jewish" can be used to describe either ethnic background or religious affiliation, which isn't the case for other ethnicities. So, for example, "Egyptian Christian" is a valid term, but if you say "Muslim Christian", that would be nonsensical.

    Would you agree?
    Indeed there is that confusion, since being Jewish is both a culture and a religion, or "ethno-religious" community so to speak. Kinda like how the Amish are is one way to think about it.

    Now as for "Muslim Christian" - that's an interesting discussion in itself. Is it entirely nonsense? I would say no, not in certain contexts, but one has to be careful how one proceeds from there. I would say from a mainly esoteric conception of the convergences of various spiritual paths, and noting this connection in relationship to Islam and Christianity, you would be onto something. Part of Sufism(which is Islam's mystical tradition) teaches that truth is found in all religions, including Christianity. Jesus is held up as an honoured prophet within the Islamic tradition, and Muslims even believe in Christ's second coming. Muhammed himself held Christians in high regard, as noted in his letter to St. Catherine's Monastery which states that no Muslim is to disrespect the Christian tradition and anybody who does is not a true Muslim.

    So if one wants to talk about the convergence of Christianity and Islam on the deepest levels as teaching the same truth, then one could speak of being a "Christian-Muslim".

  6. #46
    Sniffles
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    This brings up the example of Abhishiktananda (Henri Le Saux), a French Benedictine monk who travelled to India and studied the Hindu teachings of the Advaita Vedanta, and later on described himself as a "Hindu-Catholic" of sorts, teaching the ultimate unity of truths between the two traditions.

  7. #47
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    A Jewish rebellion, which Hannukah essentially is, has next to nothing to do about Jesus' godliness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    A Jewish rebellion, which Hannukah essentially is, has next to nothing to do about Jesus' godliness.
    Yes, I fail to see the relevance of Hanukkah to Christianity. There just isn't any. But I'm certain that if Jesus had been described in the Bible as celebrating Hanukkah, it would have become a Christian holiday.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Yes, I fail to see the relevance of Hanukkah to Christianity. There just isn't any. But I'm certain that if Jesus had been described in the Bible as celebrating Hanukkah, it would have become a Christian holiday.
    John 10:22-23 does describe Jesus observing Hanukkah.

  10. #50
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Jews believe that Messiah will bring peace on earth, not peace in the afterlife (as what Christians believe Jesus did). Hence, if a person believes in Jesus being the Messiah that person ceases to be Jewish (in a religious sense).
    @KDude made some great comments about this and i'd add that what jesus gives us is eternal life but that life starts here, now on earth and continues on into the afterlife. unfortunately, modern day christianity has lost a lot of its jewishness but there has been a movement in recent years that is helping to bring some of that focus back to the church by focusing more on earthly matters like helping the poor and social justice issues, which in some sectors of the church have been grossly ignored. of course jesus spent a good bit of his time dealing with temporal matters like feeding people, healing their diseases and casting out demons.

    All the "Jews for Jesus" stuff is a variation of evangelizing techniques designed to convert Jews to Christianity. Anyway, long story short, if you believe Jesus to be the Messiah, you are Christian.
    from what i've read on their site they don't seem to see it that way. they do believe jesus is their awaited messiah. i can see how to a jew it would appear that they are just converting people to christianity though.

    When Christians started to evangelize to non-Jews, they adopted pagan holidays as Christian holidays so as to make the conversions easier.
    some things in pagan cultures were "kosher" for christians to adopt and some things weren't.

    i have heard christians refer to non-religious jews as "cultural jews" because they still retain their jewish ethnicity. do jews use the term "cultural jews" at all?

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