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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    you do realize that every generation has the same complaints about the music of the next don't you?
    I think about that you know, I know that my generation had Rage Against The Machine, and I was a big fan, still am, but I really think its different.

    I think there's more than a generational thing at work here, I dont mind a lot of the music for instance, like Fifty Cent's In Tha Club (although what's he done lately? His follow ups where garbage) but there's something else afoot. Entrophy for sure.

  2. #12
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think about that you know, I know that my generation had Rage Against The Machine, and I was a big fan, still am, but I really think its different.

    I think there's more than a generational thing at work here, I dont mind a lot of the music for instance, like Fifty Cent's In Tha Club (although what's he done lately? His follow ups where garbage) but there's something else afoot. Entrophy for sure.
    no matter what you say about Eminem I've STILL never heard as much pure anger in any singer as in Zach de la Roca (and I'm a huge fan of RATM!)... does it really make a difference to you who the rage is directed at? to tell the truth rage against the government and large multinational corporations is more likely to lead to mass acts of terror that kill a lot of people than general pissed offedness against life, which have fewer victims

    Are you speaking of the divide between songs looking at society in a macro sense in the days of Public Enemy and KRS1 vs the more micro sense of things like Eminem now? In the end it's all the same... there's no difference... fuck the police v fuck my ex it's all the same
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    no matter what you say about Eminem I've STILL never heard as much pure anger in any singer as in Zach de la Roca (and I'm a huge fan of RATM!)... does it really make a difference to you who the rage is directed at? to tell the truth rage against the government and large multinational corporations is more likely to lead to mass acts of terror that kill a lot of people than general pissed offedness against life, which have fewer victims

    Are you speaking of the divide between songs looking at society in a macro sense in the days of Public Enemy and KRS1 vs the more micro sense of things like Eminem now? In the end it's all the same... there's no difference... fuck the police v fuck my ex it's all the same
    I dont think its the same, RATM were angry but there was a method to the madness, it was pretty cerebral when you read the lyrics written down and wether it was the lyrics or the inlay cards fans went on to try and get a grip on what was being discussed here or books or thinkers being cited. Now I'm not one to have an exaggerated view of what all that meant, RATM where the most played and faded in and out on libertarian and right wing shock jock websites which were if anything anathema to the ideology behind the lyrics.

    RATM and artists like that where never as popular here as EminEm are the like have been, I dont know all the reasons why for that, it seems to be the sort of tunes which appeal to the generation which wants to simultaneously try and convey complete apathy, ie "I dont give a f**k", and complete outrage, in more suttle and subliminal ways it has a greater capacity to shape mind and culture.

    I know that this can appear like every generation's complaint, if it is then that's actually good, I can relax, things arent so bad and its like the changing of the seasons but I'm always very wary when I encounter any instance which could be rationalised that way because it could be minimising, seeking comfort, which is as bad as alarmism, probably worse even.

  4. #14
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think its the same, RATM were angry but there was a method to the madness, it was pretty cerebral when you read the lyrics written down and wether it was the lyrics or the inlay cards fans went on to try and get a grip on what was being discussed here or books or thinkers being cited. Now I'm not one to have an exaggerated view of what all that meant, RATM where the most played and faded in and out on libertarian and right wing shock jock websites which were if anything anathema to the ideology behind the lyrics.

    RATM and artists like that where never as popular here as EminEm are the like have been, I dont know all the reasons why for that, it seems to be the sort of tunes which appeal to the generation which wants to simultaneously try and convey complete apathy, ie "I dont give a f**k", and complete outrage, in more suttle and subliminal ways it has a greater capacity to shape mind and culture.

    I know that this can appear like every generation's complaint, if it is then that's actually good, I can relax, things arent so bad and its like the changing of the seasons but I'm always very wary when I encounter any instance which could be rationalised that way because it could be minimising, seeking comfort, which is as bad as alarmism, probably worse even.
    you're being just like Tipper Gore was about Prince's "darling Nikki"... overly alarmist

    you should be more concerned about the kids' parents than what music they are listening to anyways... despite the fact that I spent high school listening to RATM, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Sublime I'm not really much of one for drugs, California OR running away to join the Chiapas rebels
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    you're being just like Tipper Gore was about Prince's "darling Nikki"... overly alarmist

    you should be more concerned about the kids' parents than what music they are listening to anyways... despite the fact that I spent high school listening to RATM, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Sublime I'm not really much of one for drugs, California OR running away to join the Chiapas rebels
    Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

    There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.

  6. #16
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

    There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.
    things are never as big of a deal as people make them out to be... look at things from the bigger perspective for a bit... it's not a big deal
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    things are never as big of a deal as people make them out to be... look at things from the bigger perspective for a bit... it's not a big deal
    Doesnt need to be a big deal to matter, we're not talking the end of civilisation here but just life being worse than it was, from a certain perspective, or at the very least no better. I know the point you're trying to make though. Thanks

  8. #18
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Good, to me, is being on a mission... Living with a purpose, wilfully. Good people strive for a state of living closer to selflessness-- actively.

    Meaning: outward energy. Looking around for people who are suffering.

    For example, sitting in a monastery in self-denial isn't really good in my opinion. That's kind of a waste of time, although those people might be called "good people". & they might have an elemental goodness, but their living isn't goodness.

    It's not such an extreme thing, really... i mean you don't have to be out in the Peace corps in African villages helping people hand-to-hand, feeding the sick. It could be as simple as living a normal life but looking everywhere for people in need, looking for occasions when you can step beyond your daily life.

    Decent is more like doing good when the occasion arises, but not actively looking for those occasions.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    you do realize that every generation has the same complaints about the music of the next don't you?
    For three thousand years each generation has been getting worse. And this generation is no different.

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well if you're right there's no harm done, if I'm right then what? Which approach is it safer to take do you think?

    There's a lot of kids without parents, a lot of kids who despite their parents are defacto parented by music and other cultural trends.
    Urging young people to contemplate their music won't work. It would be better simply to show them alternatives if that is possible. Assuming you did convince some of them to abandon the likes of Eminem; what then? Their playlist void might be filled by something equally objectionable, unless they have something better to replace it. As with a bad habit, it is easier to replace something bad with something better, than with nothing at all (simple elimination).

    In general, the best way you can influence young people, or anyone at all, is to set the example you would like them to emulate. If you are willing, on top of this you can be open to any who approach you for further advice or information. Uninvited directness, though, may if anything just push them away.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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