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  1. #41
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Infinity proves there is a God.
    Can you give me an example of a thing that exists in an infinite amount?

  2. #42
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    This might not really be on-topic, at least, with the current trend of posts, but here are my musings on mathematics for what it's worth:

    First, numbers are bullshit. They don't exist. I am sitting here, in my room, looking at my ceiling fan. I notice it has five blades. But wait, my fan is one object, the blades are five, coming to form one. In a sense, 5 = 1. But what equals the five? Tiny bits of metal, plastic...chemical structures I can't see, et cetera. 1 = 5 = ? = millions. It's all about frame of reference, kind of like what's been mentioned before. .9 = 1, depending on the viewing angle, but even having a viewing angle is kind of bullshit, because there's nothing that can distinguish one thing from another beyond abstract barriers that we make as individuals.
    Yes i agree with your perception and anyone trying to break it down using math clearly doesn't understand the concept. (lol)
    One thing that's bothered me is the concept of fractions. Suppose I have one loaf of bread and I were to cut it in halves and I gave you one half. We might represent this as you having 1/2 of a loaf of bread, but isn't that incorrect on some macroeconomic scale? In actuality you possess x particles, which combined represents some bread. There can only really be whole numbers right? I think part of the problem we run into with mathematics, even in higher levels, is that there's no real lowest-common-denominator, so to speak.
    there is no lowest-common-denominator because the foundation of matter has never been found. You might run out of bread molecules to make fractions out of but there will always be infinitly more particles and sub-particles, and sub-sub-particles ad-infinitum... because it is a pattern and for that pattern to not exist would break the physics of the pattern. The pattern is infinity and science has always been trying to find the "god particle" or foundation of matter, but always go deeper. Negative magnification goes off until infinity... unless there was some sort of reflection going on... but either way it is a clear fractal.
    While this is a bit scattered, I apologize, I have often thought about the problem of trying to exit a room by closing half the distance between yourself and the exit. I always thought it was a ludicrous problem--people don't move not-finitely whereas in this example, they do. But that's the problem with this thought experiment, it's just infinite division on a theoretical level, but in actuality, there must be some finite lowest common denominator or unit of measurement. I think the current way we look at numbers can be comparable to the difference in calculation between pints, quarts, and gallons. We dub the number 1 to be the smallest number, but it seems we tend to be talking about gallons, when there's actually 4 quarts or 8 pints. Without some bonafide smallest unit of measurement, it's kind of meaningless to talk about numbers, no?
    The pattern of infinity is clear
    Can the smallest unit of measurement ever be discovered? Something that cannot be divided or made any smaller? If so, how would it effect the mathematical world?
    The mathematical system is a tool. But it cannot inspire insight and philosophy like we did. Most people will try to deduct what you say without een trying to see how it fits true.This is a talk about infinity but people seem to like to think with numbers instead of insight. Thanks for your insight though was pretty interesting reading
    1+1=3 OMFG

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Infinity proves there is a God.
    Infinity as an abstract notion does not and cannot prove the existence of any divinity, unless you accept the idea of a merely theoretical god. Such a concept would not necessarily apply to reality (while God is not perceptible by the senses, you probably believe Him to be "real").

    In case infinity would be concrete, we could easily distinguish several types of infinity applicable to different dimensions. Thus, if we conceive an existence as spatially infinite, we can still not conclude it's got boundless possibilities. Infinity could easily lead to a "god" that is omnipresent, but not omnipotent, which contradicts the general depiction of a deity (I'm especially talking about the Abrahamic religions). An existence that is infinite in all of its dimensions would only be thinkable on a theoretical level.

    "An infinite amount of something" would only give us information about the physical dimensions of a certain object in a concrete sense. I don't see why any assumptions about other attributes of the objects should be made. Anyay, I took "no" as an obvious answer to the question posted by @Evan

  4. #44
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blank
    Can the smallest unit of measurement ever be discovered? Something that cannot be divided or made any smaller? If so, how would it effect the mathematical world?
    In math, no such number can be "discovered". You don't discover anything in math, every you can find must of automatically followed from the rules set out in the first place. In terms of math, we know that as long as you accept rational numbers, you can always divide a number. This is a concept that clearly plays itself out in your head. How could you find a number that's an exception?
    I was speaking more philosophically. Upon further reflection, perhaps infinity is expressed mathematically as something that continues to change. 9..but it never stops expanding 9's. In one sense infinity is treated as though it's finite, and in another, it's not.

    Is infinite smallness ever-shrinking, or is there a point in which it becomes nothingness?
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  5. #45
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    ( hense the effects of perception on the electron during a double slit experiment)
    Wtf?

    And
    1 ÷ 3 = 1/3
    1/3 × 3 = 1

    You dont have to use decimals you see, you can write it down in different ways you see and its still the same thing. If you want to be exact do it like i did instead of decimal. This is like the first thing they thought you(or at least me) in school when learning to divide numbers.
    Also:
    1
    3
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #46
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I was speaking more philosophically. Upon further reflection, perhaps infinity is expressed mathematically as something that continues to change. 9..but it never stops expanding 9's. In one sense infinity is treated as though it's finite, and in another, it's not.

    Is infinite smallness ever-shrinking, or is there a point in which it becomes nothingness?
    Do you know about limits? If not, you could probably answer this question in an hour or so with some research. If you do, I don't get your question.

  7. #47

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    Oh ive been to college and uni, I think. Although perhaps it was all a dream. For thee see, we had them in the dark ages, along with plundering small coastal villages and such likes.
    Once upon a time,
    In a land far, far away,
    In the land of kilts,
    And horizontal rain (yup tis currently blowing a gale and lashing down)
    There was a mad hermit,
    With a penchant for muffins and fine slippers,
    And pondering, the imponderable….

    Infinity doth not exist in any format
    Merely a conjecture postulated by mad mathematicians and that kind of ilk- no doubt as a result of pub lunch tomfoolery and for fiddling equations (any boffin or mere mortal worth their salt will scoff at infinity and never use it or ridicule it in non hushed tones)….we number few plus it dismantle the theory of the universe as we know it.

    Infinity, as you stated could only exist in one format, and one value, not three, as there be only room for one format, and no room in the universe for anything else…therefore it clearly doesn’t exist.

    Allow me to explain a little more – if I took my magical crayon and a bit of paper and started writing down those 3 infinity’s you spoke off (the reason I term it like this is for the insane mathematics arguing infinity comes in many values and strings, and primes – but not optimus) Anyways, you would run out of space – on account of it being filled with paper and a gigantic crayon, and muffins – I need them to fuel my brain. And I would need to discard two of the values to make more space form me trying to prove that one infinite anything, or value, in this case exists….as there clearly be no room for me w riting the other 2 down – same if I thought it, everything in the current universe would need to make room for it – being energy, my brain, which would span the cosmos, my crayon and paper and I would definitely run out of room. For all of the above.


    Double slit experiment - is light a wave or particle or both. I think the answer to this is clearly we do not yet understand…although people like pretending its both.
    3, 4, or more dimensions – again there would be no room for the infinite or my magical crayon, and it would be difficult as a 3/4 dimensional being seeing, or proving, other dimensions for reasons I will not go into.

    So there you have it, and I’d certainly ban infinity, and such talk of said lunacy from all curriculums…and our knowledge of the universe ( it has gaping big gaps with lots of made up stuff everyone leaves alone – but bases all their theorems and work on or part of the big answer upon (it really does you know)).

    But part of what you spake of is teaching and closing people minds…So I agree with you and it’s a very naughty thing to do, to people.

    But one must also point out you cannot visualise something that clearly doth not exist.
    I asked it once, "What are you doing on Earth?" It said, "Listen, if you're a mushroom, you live cheap; besides, I'm telling you, this was a very nice neighborhood until the monkeys got out of control."

  8. #48
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    1 x 3/3 = 1x1 = 1
    1/3= 0.(3) x 3= 0.(9)

    I know, it's strange

    Let's assume that 0.(9) =/= 1
    It would mean that when you divide 1/3 some part gets excluded. Which doesn't make any sense, why would something be excluded by division.

    Therefor 0.(9) = 1

    That's just how I see it.


    I agree with you that they don't teach the "philosophy" of math. And maybe this is why I love math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Can you give me an example of a thing that exists in an infinite amount?
    exactly

    Infinity is an abstract concept.

  9. #49
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    Sorry, I could not help it.

    Moving on to more serious (?) stuff.
    Infinity has suffered certain classification throughout the centuries. That's why denominations like: absolute infinity, actual infinty, potential infinty exist. Their corectness is irrelevant to the matter.

    Perhaps the so-called particle-wave duality leads to the perspective of the two states not being mutually exclusive, thus light or electrons can have features pertaining to both particles and waves. It would contradict physics as it was before this kind of experiments took place, but a flip over in science is not an uncommon thing. Classical physics vs modern physics would be an example. It might be a change in understanding the properties of light rather than a lack of understanding.

    I would not! I see it as a treat for the mind.Oh, and I think many philosophers could easily be included in a sphere of lunacy, which doesn't make their judgements less valuable, their works less riveting or their systems of beliefs less worthy of being studied. I know it's not a pragmatic approach on infinity, but I can't find any reason why such an approach would be necessary or desirable.

    Mathematics is an invention rather than a discovery, but I still find it appealing. One could say it's impractical and deem it garbage, but I am strongly opposed to such point of view.

    Well, you can sort of visualise something that modernly does or shakespeareanly doth not exist. You can form a mental image of whatever you fancy. Infinity is a bit different, since it's a difficult to understand concept, but you can't say the same thing about a multitude of other inexistent entities.

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