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Can atheists talk about spirit?

Siúil a Rúin

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I remember debating in favor of theism on the philosophy forums for a number of years a decade or so ago. I remember that disturbing feeling when people would get harsh and disrespecting towards Christianity. It's disturbing to see it going both ways. There is a lot of hate and prejudice. It would be great if the compassion of Christ could dispel that. It would be great if reason could. Apparently everything just deteriorates into hate no matter if you are based on morals or reason or superstitions. We can't get past our inner tribal wars of dehumanizing and disrespecting.

I think each person in this thread is trying to make sense of reality which is a great challenge. We need coherency and it is confusing when people come to different conclusions that threaten our own. Maybe there is a way to respect our common search and rise above the disrespectful hating?
 

Lark

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I remember debating in favor of theism on the philosophy forums for a number of years a decade or so ago. I remember that disturbing feeling when people would get harsh and disrespecting towards Christianity. It's disturbing to see it going both ways. There is a lot of hate and prejudice. It would be great if the compassion of Christ could dispel that. It would be great if reason could. Apparently everything just deteriorates into hate no matter if you are based on morals or reason or superstitions. We can't get past our inner tribal wars of dehumanizing and disrespecting.

I think each person in this thread is trying to make sense of reality which is a great challenge. We need coherency and it is confusing when people come to different conclusions that threaten our own. Maybe there is a way to respect our common search and rise above the disrespectful hating?

Really so what dichotomy have you set up there and how is that respectful?
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Really so what dichotomy have you set up there and how is that respectful?
I was just basing it on some of the angry exchanges from people who represent some of those positions. I tried to clarify in the second paragraph when I said that people are working towards understanding reality. That is what is going on a deeper level, but in these surface exchanges things deteriorate in ways that don't generally inspire respect. It is possible to still respect the individuals for their core search, but not agree with the surface fighting.

There is an underlying respect in knowing that people have a deeper capacity than what occurs in fleeting angry moments online.
 

Lark

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Believe it or not, that's actually one of their better songs.

I think I saw these guys as the entertainment during the super bowl during the break in the play, I couldnt believe they where the best act which they could get because I think U2 and acts like that have been the break time entertainment in the past.
 

Haven

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Atheism refers more to the absence of a higher power rather than a complete refutation of anything supernatural. Plus, there are certain limitations to language such that in some cases there are no better words to use. However, in this case Wikipedia has revealed the origin of the word spirit:

The English word spirit comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning "breath", but also "spirit, soul, courage, vigor", ultimately from a Proto-Indo-European *(s)peis. It is distinguished from Latin anima, "soul." In Greek, this distinction exists between pneuma (πνευμα), "breath, motile air, spirit," and psykhē (ψυχη), "soul."

The word "spirit" came into Middle English via Old French. The distinction between soul and spirit also developed in the Abrahamic religions: Arabic nafs (نفس) opposite rúħ (روح); Hebrew neshama (נְשָׁמָה nəšâmâh) or nephesh (in Hebrew neshama comes from the root NŠM or "breath") opposite ruach (רוּחַ rûaħ).
So when you talk about someone being "spirited," you are actually using the word in its oldest sense and it has nothing to do with anything supernatural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit
 

CuriousFeeling

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Back on topic to the OP here...

Can atheists talk about spirit? I think it is possible. For instance, science can be a great source of spirituality. It awakens our being to understand our relationship as humanity with ourselves, as well as our relationship to the universe around us. The beauty of nature and the Cosmos can be awe inspiring and humbling for us as humans. It is a spiritual experience... the connection with human beings as well as the connection between us and nature. So the answer to the original question is yes.

However, like Einstein stated, "Religion without science is blind. Science without religion is lame." Spirituality/ religion as well as scientific explanations work to help us understand the world around us. They are two branches of the same tree. Just one can't use science to explain religion, and one can't use religion to explain science. Science answers the question "how", and religion answers the question "why?". If one decides to use religion as their means of explaining why the universe is here, then it is their choice. Likewise, if one decides to use science as their means to explain how the universe is here, then it is their choice. But, with the two together, it creates a more in depth perspective of the world around us.

We are a small part of a vast universe, and a small part of the history of Earth, so why not be spiritually moved by it?
 

Aquarelle

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I was just basing it on some of the angry exchanges from people who represent some of those positions. I tried to clarify in the second paragraph when I said that people are working towards understanding reality. That is what is going on a deeper level, but in these surface exchanges things deteriorate in ways that don't generally inspire respect. It is possible to still respect the individuals for their core search, but not agree with the surface fighting.

This is very well said and a great point.
 

Daemon Corax

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Yeah, you know its not really an embarrassment to theists that there's a so called "God particle", infact surely its good news, when are atheists going to find the "there's no God particle"?

Hah, although I can spot a hint of irony, I think atheists are much more interested in the "God particle" than theists. In order to exclude any kind of religious connotation, why not simply call it the Higgs boson? It's gotten its nickname from a book published by an atheist and the physicist who came out with the concept of such a particle was also an atheist. If I may quote Wikipedia, "The particle is sometimes called the God particle, a title deplored by some scientists as a media hyperbole that misleads readers." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson)

Why would it be good news for theists that there's a "God particle", again?
 

redacted

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[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION]: I have a question: what does "spirit" mean to a religious person such as yourself? If you can define that it'd help me answer your original question.

(Although the literal answer is yes, atheists can talk about anything just like anyone else.)
 

ygolo

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Atheists can talk about spirits. As mentioned before, a belief in spirits is different from a belief in God.

But even Atheists who don't believe in spirits can talk about it. You don't have to believe in something to talk or know about it.

For instance, I know a lot about typology and such, but I don't really believe in it (I am what you might call agnostic towards it).
 

prplchknz

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yes just like they can talk about god, you don't have to believe in god to talk about him
 

ygolo

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What a coincidence, Alister McGrath just wrote a piece about the connection between the "God particle" and religious faith:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8956938/Higgs-boson-the-particle-of-faith.html

That was an interesting article. But I think the author is working off of misconceptions.
1) He juxtaposes those who believe science "proves" things to those who believe it provides explanations using ideas that "may sometimes lie beyond proof." That is such a grotesque caricature, I am not sure where to begin.
2) He posits that scientists "believe" in the existence of the Higgs Boson in the same way that Theists believe in God. He neglects the fact the "believers" in the Higgs Boson would not only be willing to abandon their belief if further evidence were to tell them to abandon it, but they would revel in the abandonment of the idea. That would mean our Standard Model was quite a ways off from reality, and would mean a lot more interesting future in Physics.
 

Daemon Corax

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There may be a connection between the so-called "God-particle" and religious faith, but I wouldn't think of it as being a significant one because of the many differences in the way these two matters are approached. It's needless to say that, while scientists actually try to prove the existence of the Higgs boson, religious fanatics usually limit themselves to arguments taken from the Bible in order to support their affirmations. I don't think that's enough of a proof. I also don't think that all occurences that are unexplainable at a certain moment in time should be attributed to God.
 
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