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  1. #61
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    The biggest thing that separates humans from animals is power and I'd have to say that humans in general are worse than animals. I recently viewed some of the sickest shit I never thought, never even had an inkling of something like it ever existing and it involved a human exerting it's power over an animal.
    I think you're close, but I would refine your thoughts into saying that that which separates us is our ability to exert our will over others.

    The statement humans are "worse" than animals is kind of pointless on its own, don't you think? Worse at what? Being content with being bored? Eating? Sleeping? Playing tennis?
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  2. #62
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Wow...

    So you have a hard time actually imagining what a God would be like?
    Yeah I really have no idea how to imagine it. I even had a hard time with it in preschool. It just doesn't seem like a coherent concept unless it's pinned to another concept, but then it's descriptively useless.

    How would you define God?

    (To relate this back to the topic, I guess one could argue that this conversation itself is an example of what separates humans from non-human animals... although that's not too satisfying to me since all animals are separated from others based on their niche...)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    How would you define God?
    The primary characteristic, for me, is an omniscient, omnipresent consciousness.

  4. #64
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The primary characteristic, for me, is an omniscient, omnipresent consciousness.
    Doesn't omniscience imply knowledge of everything everywhere? (Sorry 'bout nitpicking.)

    Anyway, it seems like you're just defining God as "the truth", but then throwing the word consciousness in there. I don't see how consciousness could be related or why it would even be necessary. Consciousness is just an emergent property of our specific physical makeup with no causal relationship to reality -- it's irrelevant except as a descriptor. And even as a descriptor, why would it apply to God? The concept was defined by humans to describe ourselves -- it seems kinda silly to imagine it would apply directly to entities with completely different physical properties without redefining the term after the fact.

    Also, if God is omniscient, where is the knowledge stored? God would have to know the precise state of the universe at EVERY given moment at the same time -- that's actually more data than the universe itself stores since it doesn't need memory of past or knowledge of future.

    (I guess I could say IMO, but that's implied.)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Doesn't omniscience imply knowledge of everything everywhere? (Sorry 'bout nitpicking.)
    I used omnipresent for a specific reason.

    The consciousness is not simply all-knowing.

    It's also always present -- watching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Anyway, it seems like you're just defining God as "the truth"...
    Yes, Truth and Being could also work.

    There is something a little more, though, I think, that is necessarily implied when you use "God" in this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ...but then throwing the word consciousness in there. I don't see how consciousness could be related or why it would even be necessary. Consciousness is just an emergent property of our specific physical makeup with no causal relationship to reality -- it's irrelevant except as a descriptor. And even as a descriptor, why would it apply to God? The concept was defined by humans to describe ourselves -- it seems kinda silly to imagine it would apply directly to entities with completely different physical properties without redefining the term after the fact.


    Not trying to be disrespectful.

    That's just what I hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Also, if God is omniscient, where is the knowledge stored? God would have to know the precise state of the universe at EVERY given moment at the same time -- that's actually more data than the universe itself stores since it doesn't need memory of past or knowledge of future.
    This is largely a useless question in my opinion.

    I would genuinely answer: I have no idea; I do not how this God's consciousness functions.

    For Christ's sake, I don't really know how my own consciousness functions; I don't know how I'd ever know how this God's would.

    I could probably add something about this God not necessarily being confined to space and time as well, but I don't think that's necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    (I guess I could say IMO, but that's implied.)
    Granted.

  6. #66
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra: I think the problem here is that I don't believe in anything non-physical -- all phenomena are physical including our thoughts and feelings. I studied consciousness in school, which further confirmed my opinion that the mind is just a program on the biological computer we call the brain.

    Anything outside this framework just registers as nonsense to me. Maybe we're at an impasse?

  7. #67
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    Yes, materialism and God are not really compatible.

    If you are not willing to forego the assumption that all things are physical, it's rather tough to believe in the spiritual.

    There is a synthesis that could take place, that could account for everything we know, and still allow for the non-physical.

    But, from the get-go, it requires one to drop the assumption of pure materialism, so you can't get there without dropping it.

  8. #68
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, materialism and God are not really compatible.

    If you are not willing to forego the assumption that all things are physical, it's rather tough to believe in the spiritual.

    There is a synthesis that could take place, that could account for everything we know, and still allow for the non-physical.

    But, from the get-go, it requires one to drop the assumption of pure materialism, so you can't get there without dropping it.
    Well I think we've figured out the problem then

    Fun convo!

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    The statement humans are "worse" than animals is kind of pointless on its own, don't you think? Worse at what? Being content with being bored? Eating? Sleeping? Playing tennis?
    If you're referring to my statement in the post you quoted, I never said humans were worse than animals, but that "humans in general are worse than animals".
    “'Fuck', I think. What a beautiful word. If I could say only one thing for the rest of my life, that would be it.”

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