Is LOGIC the ultimate authority?

[freeeekyyy]

She's listed as INTJ on greenlight wiki, and someone I know who talks to her said she's INTJ..

Okay, not going to argue on it. I must have heard wrong.

 

[Not_Me]

We need to personify Logic, maybe.

Would the statement in the OP works better if "Logic" was replaced with "God"?

 

[Kalach]

As we all know, any given person is likely to assert their dominant judging function as the maker of all choices. As we all actually know too, any given person is as well subject to some complex unconscious elements. Any ultimate authority will probably have to live up to those various expectations. A TP for example might be tempted to identify himself as different from god by observing that logical determinations significantly outline for him how he may observe everything, but he'll hand authority back to god by virtue of deference to roles.

That popular hoohaa about all people having a God-shaped hole inside them waiting to be filled? People will call their unconscious all manner of strange things and some external device that idealises the completion of that world is the least of them.

Thus, the ultimate authority is... you.




That's right, bitches. I just said the ultimate authority is a sense of internal rightness that approves action. ULTIMATE AUTHORITY IS UNCONSCIOUS Fi!!!

IF YOU DON'T HAVE UNCONSCIOUS Fi, YOU ARE A LESION ON THE FACE OF HUMANITY YOU ARE THE ANCIENT ENEMY!!!

 

[Jaguar]

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works.
Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

Yo mamma, Kalach.

 

[Coriolis]

As we all know, any given person is likely to assert their dominant inwardly-focused judging function as the maker of all choices.

Thus, the ultimate authority is... you.

Yes. Ultimately, we can control only our own actions.

 

[Zarathustra]

My God, two of you?!?!

You're really making us a look like a bunch of fucking solipsists...

I am repudiating my old teachings, children...

"There is a real world!"

Use your inferior Se!

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Would the statement in the OP works better if "Logic" was replaced with "God"?

For some people. It was actually a lame reference to a former forum member who died a tragic, logical death.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Yo mamma, Kalach.

+1 The ultimate authority is Kalach's mother.

 

[Betty Blue]

Definately not. Because otherwise i would be bowing down to it now, which i am not.

 

[Kalach]

What I'm saying is people will tend to ascribe to god any power that they are perforce interested in but don't control well. God will control it well. Meanwhile, we'll differentiate ourselves from god in terms of what we do control. And we'll boggle at what connection there might be between these two realms of authority. Which is to say, we'll wonder at our relationship to Deity Aloft.

Thus, if "this [logic] is now the ultimate power in the universe", god dies. Or grabs us with an invisible hand from across the room. One or the other. And it is vital to know which because in some sense we know it must be both. There must be some sense in which logic is ultimate, for that is how we guide ourselves, be it feeling or thinking logic. And there must also be some sense in which logic is not ultimate, for along with logic there will also be some terribly important thing which we cannot guide, thinking or feeling, both in the illogic form.

Which is not to say there is no god. Just that god might be Darth Vader...


After all,

''I AM YOUR FATHER!"

And he was a Jedi once. Jedi don't say that stuff just for kicks, even when they're Sith.

 

[KDude]

Who's to say God doesn't appreciate Logic anyways? It seems logical that God would.. or even set the rules for it. Being creator of the universe, it would entail more than just the creation of the material manifestation of the universe - but laws themselves. Even specifically in Christianity, the "incarnate Word" that is Jesus, is called the Logos. Logos was a carryover term from various Greek philosophers (but specifically neoplatonism). The concept of the Logos was instrinically tied with Logic. Christians, like the Apostle Paul or John, were versed in these concepts. Paul specifically was a Hellenistic Jew, and could display his own sophistry with the best of them.

Fast forward 2000 years and every Church of Fred wants to make it out like God and Logic are some kind of seperate thing.

Anyways, this is all assuming there is a God, of course (lets not debate that for now... and for the billionth time /snore).

 

[entropie]

Who's to say God doesn't appreciate Logic anyways? It seems logical that God would.. or even set the rules for it. Being creator of the universe, it would entail more than just the creation of the material manifestation of the universe - but laws themselves. Even specifically in Christianity, the "incarnate Word" that is Jesus, is called the Logos. Logos was a carryover term from various Greek philosophers (but specifically neoplatonism). The concept of the Logos was instrinically tied with Logic. Christians, like the Apostle Paul or John, were versed in these concepts. Paul specifically was a Hellenistic Jew, and could display his own sophistry with the best of them.

Fast forward 2000 years and every Church of Fred wants to make it out like God and Logic are some kind of seperate thing.

Anyways, this is all assuming there is a God, of course (lets not debate that for now... and for the billionth time /snore).

Would you then say killing each others because of religion is logic ? or black Death ? Or AIDS ?

If this god is logical, he is definitly NT

 

[KDude]

Would you then say killing each others because of religion is logic ? or black Death ? Or AIDS ?

If this god is logical, he is definitly NT

I'd blame the killing because of religion mostly on humans.

As for the rest, maybe there is a logic to those disasters and diseases. There's even worse things in the universe besides that. Think of a gamma ray burst, that could have or might have already completely killed off entire civilized systems in a blink of an eye. Destruction at it's most frightening and seemingly senseless level. But maybe there's a reason. The universe is a big place, and some actions might take priority because it's ultimately beneficial (but only a God would know if it was of any benefit).

And if we don't want to believe a God is orchestrating all of this for some logical reason, then we must believe in Chaos. In which case, Chaos is the highest authority. I dare anyone to actually embrace that though.

 

[entropie]

I'd blame the killing because of religion mostly on humans.

As for the rest, maybe there is a logic to those disasters and diseases. There's even worse things in the universe besides that. Think of a gamma ray burst, that could have or might have already completely killed off entire civilized systems in a blink of an eye. Destruction at it's most frightening and seemingly senseless level. But maybe there's a reason. The universe is a big place, and some actions might take priority because it's ultimately beneficial (but only a God would know if it was of any benefit).

And if we don't want to believe a God is orchestrating all of this, then we must believe in Chaos. In which case, Chaos is the highest authority. I dare anyone to actually embrace that though.

So when the nazis killed 6 billion jews there maybe was a reason in the big scheme ? I know I am poking but I do that out of the purpose because its my impression that idealistic and spiritual people too easily let themselves off the hook. And in that light God cant be logical to me, cause logic is 1 or not 1 and not maybe 1 (except for fuzzy logic )

 

[KDude]

Damn... Foiled by Nazis. Again.

I bow to your logic, good sir.

 

[entropie]

Damn... Foiled by Nazis. Again.

I bow to your logic, good sir.

Ya I dont want to win the debate it's only my personal feeling. I am convinced there is something much more advanced than we are out there and that our way of understanding logic may be only the beginning. And seen from a point of wisdom to honor the victims of WWII, it generated a huge learning experience for mankind and since then we had the longest era of peace in our entire history. of course the price for that is not justificable.

Dont want to start on the God debate as well, but I think my biggest problem is that I need to be in control of my individuality. And believing in religion would mean that I had given up on reality and the challenge that life appears senseless.

 

[Zarathustra]

So when the nazis killed 6 billion jews there maybe was a reason in the big scheme ? I know I am poking but I do that out of the purpose because its my impression that idealistic and spiritual people too easily let themselves off the hook. And in that light God cant be logical to me, cause logic is 1 or not 1 and not maybe 1 (except for fuzzy logic )

Erbsenzähler

Would I be being an Erbsenzähler if I noted that it was 6 million, not 6 billion. Is pointing out a mistake of 1000x still Erbsenzähling?

 

[entropie]

Erbsenzähler

would I be being an Erbsenzähler if I noted that it was 6 million, not 6 billion. Is a mistake of 1000x Erbsenzähling?

Nononono ! The explicit question was about if God is logical I wasnt correcting semantics !

Note to self: Damn the dark intp in me is growing stronger again, need to feed it more meat

edit: ah you meant the numbers Ya I get confused with the imperial system

 

[KDude]

Dont want to start on the God debate as well, but I think my biggest problem is that I need to be in control of my individuality. And believing in religion would mean that I had given up on reality and the challenge that life appears senseless.

Some of most famous religious people thought life was senseless too.

Look at Mother Theresa. Her cynicism ran deep, and she believed that even if she was declared a saint, she thought she'd be a saint of "darkness". A lot of things made her doubt. The only thing that made her religious is that she wanted to have faith it wasn't as bad as she thought. It was a desire on her part. Not a shutting off of her perceptions and mental faculties.

 

[entropie]

Some of most famous religious people thought life was senseless too.

Look at Mother Theresa. Her cynicism ran deep, and she believed that even if she was declared a saint, she thought she'd be a saint of "darkness". A lot of things made her doubt. The only thing that made her religious is that she wanted to have faith it wasn't as bad as she thought. It was a desire on her part. Not a shutting off of her perceptions and mental faculties.

Hm cool I did not know that.

Well never say never maybe one day ..