Is LOGIC the ultimate authority?

[Spurgeon]

Yes, it was a dumb thread.

Alright. Alright. I can admit when I'm wrong.

Zara, you were right in the beginning, when you said it was foolish to even ask the question.

Now I see the light.

 

[Jaguar]

I can admit when I'm wrong.

Then you can't be INTJ.

 

[Spurgeon]

Then you can't be INTJ.

LOL

Well, I've only recently begun to do that.

The more I trust in Jesus Christ, the less I need to defend myself.

Well, there's the proselytizing you've all been waiting for!

 

[freeeekyyy]

MANKIND is the 'ULTIMATE' AUTHORITY. The 'ULTIMATE' AUTHORITY are the DESCISION MAKERS. MANKIND makes all DESCISIONs. MANKIND is FALLIBLE. Therefor 'ULTIMATE' AUTHORITY is FALLIBLE.

PS: 'ULTIMATE' in 'ULTIMATE AUTHORITY' can be neglected, because AUTHORITY is DOMINANT by nature, therefor ULTIMATE is already assumed!

AUTHORITY has spoken.

PPS: sorry, I just had a can of POWERTHIRST!

No 1 Educated matches my intelligence.
Really, just how diabolic are the humans
educated on Earth based upon ONEness?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Historically, yes. But going into the future we have no idea what systems of consciousness will manifest themselves to be most effective in the real world. The fallacy of time, you could call it.

It seems to me that logic is rather retroactive. It clearly has always been around in some sense, and the logical arguments we form now would be just as logically true at any time or place. How do you define truth outside of logic? This alternative matters little to humans since I presume it would have to be literally incomprehensible.

Technology, for example, could usurp our own abilities of logic (some argue that it's inevitable, and others that it's already happened albeit in a crude form) and then we'd have to force ourselves to consider other forms of consiousness as being more pivotal to human development, lest we become slaves to technology, ala the matrix.

If you're talking about technology developed from our own, than that will most certainly operate from logic. It already operates more logically than we do.

The question, then, becomes what other forms of consciousness can manifest themselves to be most effective in human development, and to what ends, and whose to say?

You get a million bucks if you can formulate an answer to this question that isn't logical.

 

[Coriolis]

The more I trust in Jesus Christ, the less I need to defend myself.

Well, there's the proselytizing you've all been waiting for!

Having such a strongly external locus of control is uncharacteristic of INTJs, even moreso than admitting they were wrong.

 

[Spurgeon]

Having such a strongly external locus of control is uncharacteristic of INTJs, even moreso than admitting they were wrong.

I believe that is reflection of my auxillary (and somewhat immature) Te.
On second thought, that has nothing to do with it.

I've recently made a conscious (and somewhat painful) commitment to following the will of Christ, rather than my own will.

This has certainly not been the pattern of my life.
I've normally followed my own intuitions, stubbornly, no matter what anyone else thought.
I've been changed by grace, but, fundamentally, I'm still an INTJ.


You're not suggesting I'm a Te dom are you?

I doubt it. But at this point, I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[Mal12345]

Einstein said some nice things about intuition as against logic. But reason gets to decide when it is the best time to use intuition or logic.

Hume said some nice things about passion, but a hot passion is dangerous where it is not tempered by cool-headed reason. Reason cannot be the slave of passion without destroying it. Hume's argument for passion is circular, it begins by affirming the consequent: that passion is the superior moral guide.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I believe that is reflection of my auxillary (and somewhat immature) Te.
On second thought, that has nothing to do with it.

I've recently made a conscious (and somewhat painful) commitment to following the will of Christ, rather than my own will.

This has certainly not been the pattern of my life.


You're not suggesting I'm a Te dom are you?

I doubt it. But at this point, I'm open to any suggestions.

When first starting, sometimes the most effective way to determine your type is actually the online tests. Just so long as you make sure and use one of the better ones, like the Keirsey Temperament Sorter. It may be wrong, but it'll give you a better starting point than coming entirely from your own understanding before you really know the functions.

Have you taken any MBTI tests?

 

[Coriolis]

I've recently made a conscious (and somewhat painful) commitment to following the will of Christ, rather than my own will.

This has certainly not been the pattern of my life.
I've normally followed my own intuitions, stubbornly, no matter what anyone else thought.
I've been changed by grace, but, fundamentally, I'm still an INTJ.

You're not suggesting I'm a Te dom are you?

I do not know you nearly well enough to suggest a type, or even to say you are not INTJ. I am simply mentioning characteristics I have found typical of INTJs. You can decide the degree to which they describe you.

If you are indeed INTJ, and have transferred direction of your life from your own will/intuition to some external control, you may easily find yourself a fish out of water, turning your back on your (God-given) strengths.* I can see where following your intuitions stubbornly without regard to others' opinions might lead to frustration and dissatisfaction. This is where aux Te comes in. It enables you to follow those intuitions thoughtfully, critically, and even flexibly to reach your goals.

*I suspect this is true of any type, just worse for NT/INTJ. (Or perhaps I'm just revealing my own type bias here.)

 

[Spurgeon]

I do not know you nearly well enough to suggest a type, or even to say you are not INTJ. I am simply mentioning characteristics I have found typical of INTJs. You can decide the degree to which they describe you.

If you are indeed INTJ, and have transferred direction of your life from your own will/intuition to some external control, you may easily find yourself a fish out of water, turning your back on your (God-given) strengths.* I can see where following your intuitions stubbornly without regard to others' opinions might lead to frustration and dissatisfaction. This is where aux Te comes in. It enables you to follow those intuitions thoughtfully, critically, and even flexibly to reach your goals.

*I suspect this is true of any type, just worse for NT/INTJ. (Or perhaps I'm just revealing my own type bias here.)

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to give a thoughtful response, but I really do appreciate it.

 

[KDude]

On a sidenote, I think Lenore Thomson is a Christian INTJ.

Her book talks more about Buffy than Jesus though.

 

[freeeekyyy]

On a sidenote, I think Lenore Thomson is a Christian INTJ.

Her book talks more about Buffy than Jesus though.

I thought she was an INFJ?

 

[Not_Me]

"Logic cannot be the ultimate authority.
If it were, we couldn't prove the laws of logic to be objectively authoritative in the first place, because we would have to assume they were authoritative in order to do so, which is circular reasoning."

The statement is likely pure crap. But it's hard to say for sure because of the wording is so ambiguous.

 

[KDude]

I thought she was an INFJ?

She's listed as INTJ on greenlight wiki, and someone I know who talks to her said she's INTJ.


My only point is, she can talk about a lot of things. Not just Jesus.

 

[Zarathustra]

I've heard INTJ for her as well.

Dario Nardi too.

Not sure about Berens.

Beebe is ENTP.

Keirsey INTP.

 

[KDude]

Dario Nardi is Italian, and reminds me too much of FDG. I'm gonna retype him ENTJ now.

 

[Jaguar]

Not sure about Berens.

INTP, from her mouth.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

The statement is likely pure crap. But it's hard to say for sure because of the wording is so ambiguous.

We need to personify Logic, maybe.

 

[KDude]

We need to personify Logic, maybe.

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