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  1. #21
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    All of this is very interesting you guys, but psychoanalyzing me is irrelevant to the topic, don't you think?
    If you do think it's relevant, please explain.

  2. #22
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Fuck the authority!

  3. #23
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    If you ask me any form of psychoanalysis is pretty freaking oppositional to a logical approach.

  4. #24
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    What's interesting to me is that in order to demonstrate that logic isn't the ultimate authority, you must invoke it.

    Also, No.

    Also also, I concur that Lark is in fact the ultimate authority
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Logic is a process, a tool, and its outputs are only as sound as its inputs (facts, assumptions) are valid. It cannot itself be an authority on anything, but whatever hopes or claims to be that authority would be wise to employ it.

    From my favorite original series Star Trek:

    McCoy: Life and death are seldom logical.
    Spock: But attaining a desired goal always is.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Logic is a process, a tool, and its outputs are only as sound as its inputs.
    Yes, Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO).

  7. #27
    Sniffles
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    No - logic is not the ultimate authority.

  8. #28
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?:

    "Logic cannot be the ultimate authority.
    If it were, we couldn't prove the laws of logic to be objectively authoritative in the first place, because we would have to assume they were authoritative in order to do so, which is circular reasoning."
    Nice symantactics.

    [symbolism + semantics + tactics = symantactics ]

    [I] "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor 2:14).

  9. #29
    Sniffles
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    Perhaps here's a better(abeit longer) quote on the issue:
    Logic and truth, as a matter of fact, have very little to do with each other. Logic is concerned merely with the fidelity and accuracy with which a certain process is performed, a process which can be performed with any materials, with any assumption. You can be as logical about griffins and basilisks as about sheep and pigs. On the assumption that a man has two ears, it is good logic that three men have six ears, but on the assumption that a man has four ears, it is equally good logic that three men have twelve. And the power of seeing how many ears the average man, as a fact, possesses, the power of counting a gentleman's ears accurately and without mathematical confusion, is not a logical thing but a primary and direct experience, like a physical sense, like a religious vision. The power of counting ears may be limited by a blow on the head; it may be disturbed and even augmented by two bottles of champagne; but it cannot be affected by argument. Logic has again and again been expended, and expended most brilliantly and effectively, on things that do not exist at all. There is far more logic, more sustained consistency of the mind, in the science of heraldry than in the science of biology. There is more logic in Alice in Wonderland than in the Statute Book or the Blue Books. The relations of logic to truth depend, then, not upon its perfection as logic, but upon certain pre-logical faculties and certain pre-logical discoveries, upon the possession of those faculties, upon the power of making those discoveries. If a man starts with certain assumptions, he may be a good logician and a good citizen, a wise man, a successful figure. If he starts with certain other assumptions, he may be an equally good logician and a bankrupt, a criminal, a raving lunatic. Logic, then, is not necessarily an instrument for finding truth; on the contrary, truth is necessarily an instrument for using logic—for using it, that is, for the discovery of further truth and for the profit of humanity. Briefly, you can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it.

    G. K. Chesterton (Daily News, Feb 25, 1905)
    I bolded the main last point for those who don't want to read the entire thing.

  10. #30
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Is authority the ultimate logic?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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