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  1. #111
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Logic is not an authority, but neither is it a servant. Logic can't relate to you like a person, because it doesn't have ends, loyalties or passions. Logic cannot dictate what you should believe nor enforce any decrees; neither will it strive to please you or follow commands. Logic is an authority or servant only in a metaphorical sense; it is "ultimate" only with respect to the purely formal properties of truth and inference.

    We can be wrong about logic, and we can err in our reasoning. Some of us just do not care about truth or reason. To assert the 'ultimate authority' of logic is rather pointless, since it does nothing to settle disagreements of fact or ends. If we accept an argument as logical, and we are interested in truth and reason, then we, not logic, are the authority who makes that decision, and we, not logic, are responsible for any errors that follow.

    Logic cannot compel; it is not an actor. Our passions may be compelling, in some sense, and we may have a passion for truth and reason. A logical argument may seem "compelling", but such compulsion does not come from logic itself, but rather from our passion for truth and the logic of argument.

    Logic has no authority to compel unless we surrender ourselves to it, but then we are merely giving unchecked power to our fallible attempts to reason. It's best, I think, to eschew the idea of an authority in such matters. It is the parochial delusion of a species preoccupied with social strata: a crude attempt to shoehorn an abstraction into the place of a hero or leader. I love logic, but not this "authority" that people try to make of it.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    LOL

    I'd vote for Spock in a heartbeat.

  3. #113
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm defiant and skeptical of atheism.
    we'll you are american. they all have a god complex
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    we'll you are american. they all have a god complex
    I think it's u Germanz who have the nihilism complex...



    And since when was Lark an American?

  5. #115
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think it's u Germanz who have the nihilism complex...



    And since when was Lark an American?
    ja its like that. you cant have only highly intellectual idealists. someone has to do the real work aswell
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #116
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I always suspected I was American.

    A Bull-Moose American.

  7. #117
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    At the minute I think that the authority in the world is money.
    I agree.

    Where I hate to see this is in the religious realm.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I agree.

    Where I hate to see this is in the religious realm.
    I hate to see it any place.

  9. #119
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I hate to see it any place.
    True.

    I guess it just shocks me when I see it in the religious realm because I don't expect that.

  10. #120
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I'm wondering in which sense "authority" is meant. Should you use logic and only logic to decide whether something is true or false? You won't get far. Logic is really good for getting new truths out from old ones; or to decide whether two ideas fit together or not. That's what logic is for, and if there is a flaw in it, it will be repaired. Like science, logic is being improved all day.
    So where do the first truths come from? Two possibilities. (1) You can choose a basic set of rules (axioms). That way you'll get math. You can get Euclidean geometry or non-Euclidean; some truths in Euclidean will be false in non-Euclidean.
    (2) Observation. If you aren't contented with a mental construct, carry out experiments and find out truths about how the universe works.

    What about morality? Logic can't decide about good and bad, can it? No, but it can help, as well as observation. There's a set of ethical rules which is improved as time passes. Early 20th century Jews were regarded as a race, defined by blood. The Nazis weren't really out of sync with the morals of their time. Observation and logic, the scientific pair of truth-hunters, abolished race and blood theories in favour of genetics... and nowadays most people wouldn't think of treating their fellow humans that bad. Except for homosexuals, [sarcasm] of course! They aren't fully human... [\sarcasm]
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