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  1. #91
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Who's to say God doesn't appreciate Logic anyways? It seems logical that God would.. or even set the rules for it. Being creator of the universe, it would entail more than just the creation of the material manifestation of the universe - but laws themselves. Even specifically in Christianity, the "incarnate Word" that is Jesus, is called the Logos. Logos was a carryover term from various Greek philosophers (but specifically neoplatonism). The concept of the Logos was instrinically tied with Logic. Christians, like the Apostle Paul or John, were versed in these concepts. Paul specifically was a Hellenistic Jew, and could display his own sophistry with the best of them.

    Fast forward 2000 years and every Church of Fred wants to make it out like God and Logic are some kind of seperate thing.

    Anyways, this is all assuming there is a God, of course (lets not debate that for now... and for the billionth time /snore).

  2. #92
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Who's to say God doesn't appreciate Logic anyways? It seems logical that God would.. or even set the rules for it. Being creator of the universe, it would entail more than just the creation of the material manifestation of the universe - but laws themselves. Even specifically in Christianity, the "incarnate Word" that is Jesus, is called the Logos. Logos was a carryover term from various Greek philosophers (but specifically neoplatonism). The concept of the Logos was instrinically tied with Logic. Christians, like the Apostle Paul or John, were versed in these concepts. Paul specifically was a Hellenistic Jew, and could display his own sophistry with the best of them.

    Fast forward 2000 years and every Church of Fred wants to make it out like God and Logic are some kind of seperate thing.

    Anyways, this is all assuming there is a God, of course (lets not debate that for now... and for the billionth time /snore).
    Would you then say killing each others because of religion is logic ? or black Death ? Or AIDS ?

    If this god is logical, he is definitly NT
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #93
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Would you then say killing each others because of religion is logic ? or black Death ? Or AIDS ?

    If this god is logical, he is definitly NT
    I'd blame the killing because of religion mostly on humans.

    As for the rest, maybe there is a logic to those disasters and diseases. There's even worse things in the universe besides that. Think of a gamma ray burst, that could have or might have already completely killed off entire civilized systems in a blink of an eye. Destruction at it's most frightening and seemingly senseless level. But maybe there's a reason. The universe is a big place, and some actions might take priority because it's ultimately beneficial (but only a God would know if it was of any benefit).

    And if we don't want to believe a God is orchestrating all of this for some logical reason, then we must believe in Chaos. In which case, Chaos is the highest authority. I dare anyone to actually embrace that though.

  4. #94
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'd blame the killing because of religion mostly on humans.

    As for the rest, maybe there is a logic to those disasters and diseases. There's even worse things in the universe besides that. Think of a gamma ray burst, that could have or might have already completely killed off entire civilized systems in a blink of an eye. Destruction at it's most frightening and seemingly senseless level. But maybe there's a reason. The universe is a big place, and some actions might take priority because it's ultimately beneficial (but only a God would know if it was of any benefit).

    And if we don't want to believe a God is orchestrating all of this, then we must believe in Chaos. In which case, Chaos is the highest authority. I dare anyone to actually embrace that though.
    So when the nazis killed 6 billion jews there maybe was a reason in the big scheme ? I know I am poking but I do that out of the purpose because its my impression that idealistic and spiritual people too easily let themselves off the hook. And in that light God cant be logical to me, cause logic is 1 or not 1 and not maybe 1 (except for fuzzy logic )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #95
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Damn... Foiled by Nazis. Again.

    I bow to your logic, good sir.

  6. #96
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Damn... Foiled by Nazis. Again.

    I bow to your logic, good sir.
    Ya I dont want to win the debate it's only my personal feeling. I am convinced there is something much more advanced than we are out there and that our way of understanding logic may be only the beginning. And seen from a point of wisdom to honor the victims of WWII, it generated a huge learning experience for mankind and since then we had the longest era of peace in our entire history. of course the price for that is not justificable.

    Dont want to start on the God debate as well, but I think my biggest problem is that I need to be in control of my individuality. And believing in religion would mean that I had given up on reality and the challenge that life appears senseless.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    So when the nazis killed 6 billion jews there maybe was a reason in the big scheme ? I know I am poking but I do that out of the purpose because its my impression that idealistic and spiritual people too easily let themselves off the hook. And in that light God cant be logical to me, cause logic is 1 or not 1 and not maybe 1 (except for fuzzy logic )
    Erbsenzähler

    Would I be being an Erbsenzähler if I noted that it was 6 million, not 6 billion. Is pointing out a mistake of 1000x still Erbsenzähling?

  8. #98
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Erbsenzähler

    would I be being an Erbsenzähler if I noted that it was 6 million, not 6 billion. Is a mistake of 1000x Erbsenzähling?
    Nononono ! The explicit question was about if God is logical I wasnt correcting semantics !

    Note to self: Damn the dark intp in me is growing stronger again, need to feed it more meat

    edit: ah you meant the numbers Ya I get confused with the imperial system
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #99
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Dont want to start on the God debate as well, but I think my biggest problem is that I need to be in control of my individuality. And believing in religion would mean that I had given up on reality and the challenge that life appears senseless.
    Some of most famous religious people thought life was senseless too.

    Look at Mother Theresa. Her cynicism ran deep, and she believed that even if she was declared a saint, she thought she'd be a saint of "darkness". A lot of things made her doubt. The only thing that made her religious is that she wanted to have faith it wasn't as bad as she thought. It was a desire on her part. Not a shutting off of her perceptions and mental faculties.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Some of most famous religious people thought life was senseless too.

    Look at Mother Theresa. Her cynicism ran deep, and she believed that even if she was declared a saint, she thought she'd be a saint of "darkness". A lot of things made her doubt. The only thing that made her religious is that she wanted to have faith it wasn't as bad as she thought. It was a desire on her part. Not a shutting off of her perceptions and mental faculties.
    Hm cool I did not know that.

    Well never say never maybe one day ..
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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