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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Wow there nelly!!

    I dont buy that, not for an instant, there are objective realities besides anyones subjective assessment of them. The extent to which subjective vs. objective evaluations have been overestimated or asserted is something which is nothing normal. In reality opinion accounts for much less than what most people figure and objectivity much more.

    To assert worth (or even worthlessness or simply neutrality) of human kind is something distinctly human, animals dont do that, animals dont possess the consciousness of human kind in order to be able to do that. I'm not talking about communication, basic cognition or language skills, animals may possess those but they dont possess the consciousness which allows humankind to stand apart from nature and pose or comprehend those sorts of questions in the first place.

    Ultimately it could be considered the bane of human kind's existence, living in full knowledge of your eventual fate to die, but it is uniquely human.
    I'm not denying objective reality completely, and clearly objective things do exist and hold great value, but worth, to be worthy of something, or possess worth towards another object, still requires an agent to actively possess worth. However the worth of something can be measured in an objective sense, as I mentioned how one can judge the worth of a worker by an objective criteria, but without the desire of a person assessing that worker's worth, then worth of him is essentially meaningless.

    Or, perhaps worth can objectively exist, but without agents to utilize and assess worthiness of other things, it essentially has no real meaning to it.

  2. #12
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    There is no such thing as objective worth. It's in the mind of the beholder. A genocidal warlord can be a hero or a monster, depending on who you ask.

  3. #13
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    There is no such thing as objective worth. It's in the mind of the beholder. A genocidal warlord can be a hero or a monster, depending on who you ask.
    Then don't be objective. What is a person's worth to you?

  4. #14
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    I believe everyone has the same amount of intrinsic worth overall, but not everyone has the same 'worth' in regards to the same things. If we all did, where would the human variation be? Different people have different skills, different strengths and weaknesses, different personalities. Who's considered 'worthy' to one person may not be considered 'worthy' to another. As several have already said, 'worth' is subjective.
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  5. #15
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    We are ends in ourselves. We are ends not means. We are not means to an end, we are ends in ourselves. We are not means to the ends of God, our parents, our peers, our teachers, our lovers or even the State. We have no need to justify our existence. We are sui generis. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights gives us the right to life and needs no justification.

    On the other hand, the vulgar judge a person's worth by their money and property. "What's he worth", they say. "A couple of million", they reply, "Well, he is certainly worth inviting to dinner".

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Then don't be objective. What is a person's worth to you?
    Then what you are really asking is how much emotional attachment I have to people. It depends on the person. A loved one is undoubtedly "worth" infinitely more than a stranger.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I pray that the posters on this forum are really all the two dimensional, unthinking bots that they appear to be and arent people walking around with responsbilities in the real world.

  8. #18
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I cruising over the lunch hour, listening to Sly & the Stone and talking to my INTP (probably) friend and we started dancing around this topic. It's common in the Western world to believe that every person is as valuable as another. I believe this because I recognize every one of my fellow species sharing a common experience with one another, each from our own POV. My INTP friend has this conviction that everybody has the same potentiality to affect the world in some way, and that makes us worthy.

    What makes a person worthy? Is everybody worthy in your eyes?
    yeah, I think we have equal worth- it is kind of counterintuitive to think the other way for me. However, I posted something about the human body a while back. Like each cell has a job- and each human is like a cell in the body of the Earth. But if you are a tonsil cell, objectively, to the human mind anyway, you're not going to be as important as a cardiac muscle cell... If you mutate into a cancer cell, then you're not cool. But we're all just single cells working together at the end of the day. We don't matter all by ourselves. If I'm a brain cell and I die, it doesn't matter. If a large group of brain cells die in a short period of time, we have a problem.


    (It's just one line of thought that has been hanging around lately, I've had other opposing thoughts before on the topic.)
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We are ends in ourselves. We are ends not means. We are not means to an end, we are ends in ourselves. We are not means to the ends of God, our parents, our peers, our teachers, our lovers or even the State. We have no need to justify our existence. We are sui generis. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights gives us the right to life and needs no justification.

    On the other hand, the vulgar judge a person's worth by their money and property. "What's he worth", they say. "A couple of million", they reply, "Well, he is certainly worth inviting to dinner".
    Yeah. I thought that at least in theory that is a thing that doesn't have to be discussed anymore, that there is at least a general understanding that a person's value doesn't have to be defined, that every individual has a self purpose. I know, in reality, how people act on it, it often looks very different sadly, but apparently, even in theory this principle seems to get lost from people slowly.

  10. #20
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    on a galactic scale: A bit less than abolute nothing.
    if you love this person: Quite a lot of value
    if it is a person you will never see, talk to, or be affected by: Meaningless value
    if you think the world would be a better place without this person: Negative value
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

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