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Thread: Waterboarding

  1. #41
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    Lightbulb The Ticking Time Bomb: Ideals, Torture, and Pragmatic Necessity

    If there's a ticking time bomb scenario, and you have apprehended an assailant who very likely has knowledge that could be used to prevent the scenario from occurring, if it does not seem like this information will be gathered from him or her by the time that time bomb stops ticking, then torture is justified.

    People who do not recognize this to be the case are allowing their ideals to get in the way of pragmatic necessity.

    How stupid an ideal must be that says, "One must never torture somebody, even if doing so could save a million lives."

  2. #42
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Because one thing is killing people in a war, another thing is doing it by terrorism. In a war, both sides are following what the state commands them to do. They trust the state to tell them what's the best for their nation. And they are meant to kill armed soldiers, that usually have some fighting chance against them.
    No. What you describe is simply the romanticized view of one type of war. Fairness doesn't have a place at the table in war and whether it's your beliefs or the state telling you what to do is largely irrelevant.

    You will certainly find a lot of flaws in the arguments because, in the end, it is just my moral judgement, and moral judgements don't mix with logic.
    So you would act on something just because of your morals, which can't (or won't) be justified logically? One of the major problems with most people's thoughts on morality is that they think what they feel is above questioning logically. Moral judgements absolutely do mix with logic.
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  3. #43
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Sounds pretty inefficient, to say the least. But it isn't the point, right?
    If efficiency is the point, should the government be allowed to walk into a random American's house and take them away to be tortured, if they have "reasonable cause" to suspect that although the person is completely innocent of any crime, they could yield the information to save a thousand lives?

    By your reasoning, this person's human rights shouldn't matter if a thousand people are saved?
    -end of thread-

  4. #44
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    The principle is simple. Anything goes unless there are mutual agreements to refrain. It is beneficial for us to refrain from torturing enemy soldiers if the other side agree to extend the same favor to our people. Terrorists follow no rules. So there is no reason to extend any unilateral protections to them.

  5. #45
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Torture is unacceptable, period.
    You lose.

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  6. #46
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    Do you want a quickie confession or not??

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    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Do you want a quickie confession or not??
    Only priests get those.

  8. #48
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    Waterboarding is what happens when Te-Doms and Ne-Doms collaborate. You get a quick & dirty solution that kicks asses.

  9. #49
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    So you would act on something just because of your morals, which can't (or won't) be justified logically? One of the major problems with most people's thoughts on morality is that they think what they feel is above questioning logically. Moral judgements absolutely do mix with logic.
    Well, there can be some logic. But a logic that is refutable with another logic that is gonna be as refutable as mine.
    If you want a logic, the basic logic is:
    Parameter 1 :There is no need to value the life of a person that doesn't value the life of the others.
    Parameter 2 :Therefore, if it is possible to save 1 innocent life by torturing one thousand of the above, it is justifiable.''
    Parameter 3: For terrorists, parameter 1 is assumed, unless special circumstances are present.
    Parameter 4: For anyone else, it should be verified case-by-case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    If efficiency is the point, should the government be allowed to walk into a random American's house and take them away to be tortured, if they have "reasonable cause" to suspect that although the person is completely innocent of any crime, they could yield the information to save a thousand lives?

    By your reasoning, this person's human rights shouldn't matter if a thousand people are saved?
    No, civilians are innocent til proven guilty. You are right, efficience has limits.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Given that so many crimes are committed (and remain unsolved) in America every year, why would we not waterboard all suspects to facilitate quick justice? Surely waterboarding could be justified for this purpose. Terrorists frequently end up dead or imprisoned, but many criminals in our own cities run free. Why not use this powerful tool of justice? Why do we allow crime to persist? Why do we refrain? Why would anyone oppose this if not for their blatant disregard for justice?

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