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Thread: Waterboarding

  1. #21
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You have human rights by virtue of being human. So you have them until you die.
    What are the rights of a human?

  2. #22
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    So when someone else stops recognizing human rights it becomes ok to do likewise to them? It's ok, though, because they did it first?
    If you are asking the question from a philosophical stand point, I will choose not to answer it since I am not very philosophical nor introspective nor pretentiously philosophical to formulate a half hearted answer just to provide one with an answer.

    On the other hand if you are asking from a personal belief stand point I, I believe it is the right thing to do. Not simply because they did it 1st. So that they wouldn't do it again. Think along those lines for me.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What are the rights of a human?
    In contrast to 'human rights'?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    In contrast to 'human rights'?
    Not in contrast, but by another name

    What are the human rights?

  5. #25
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    On the other hand if you are asking from a personal belief stand point I, I believe it is the right thing to do. Not simply because they did it 1st. So that they wouldn't do it again. Think along those lines for me.
    Suppose they thought that their victims had already been treating people as if they lacked human rights. Beyond that, who would stop you after you ended them to keep them from doing it again?
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Not in contrast, but by another name

    What are the human rights?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights

    However, the more relevant question is: What are the Geneva Conventions? Because I see little difference between a soldier who fights for his nation (a compound of beliefs) and a terrorist who fights for his faith or god (compounds of beliefs).

  7. #27
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    This is overly idealistic, I think.
    Possibly. But I think they deserve the benefit of doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    The states' motivation, while normally not lunatic, is virtually always selfish and they're willing to kill to achieve the goal.
    Well, in a war both sides are partial. No side is intrinsically evil or good. There is a balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You have human rights by virtue of being human. So you have them until you die.
    Ok, that means you disagree with my reasoning. But what's the final solution? Never torture?
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #28
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Suppose they thought that their victims had already been treating people as if they lacked human rights. Beyond that, who would stop you after you ended them to keep them from doing it again?
    The 2nd part of the question is a bit confusing. Could you clarify it. I don't wish to reply before the question is crystal clear.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Not in contrast, but by another name

    What are the human rights?
    Beargy, I think for a discussion to be valid it is best that both parties show their points of view rather than one party doing so and the other party trying to prove the other wrong.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Ok, that means you disagree with my reasoning. But what's the final solution? Never torture?
    What's the final solution? Never enslave?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...m_from_slavery

    What's the final solution? Never torture?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...m_from_torture

    What's the final solution? Never kill?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Right_to_life

    When is it right to torture, enslave, and kill humans?

    Surely if it could be justified, we would do it. If we do not exercise our right to kill, enslave, or torture, do we even have rights at all?

    These rights are not inalienable, as we torture, enslave, and kill each other every day. But when is it right to do these things?

    That is the question.

    At what point do I have the right to subject a person to torture, slavery, or death?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Ok, that means you disagree with my reasoning. But what's the final solution? Never torture?
    There was reasoning on your part? But, yes, the state should never practice or allow torture. If an interrogator uses torture to save a million lives, he should suffer the legal consequences.

    Of course, we could start a discussion on the legitimacy of state punishment but there, too, is no true answer to be found.

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