Zarathustra's Astrology Thread, or, Where An INTJ (Foolishly) Defends Astrology

[Nicodemus]

How very INTJ of them.

It's like using a broken clock to tell the time because you know it's right twice a day at some point.

 

[Zarathustra]

Astrologers are real big-picture, long-time thinkers, then.

Yes, the most serious ones certainly are.

Check out Tarnas' 'The Passion of the Western Mind'.

It's a phenomenal history of all the cosmological views that have held power in the western world since the Ancient Greeks.

 

[Zarathustra]

It's like using a broken clock to tell the time because you know it's right twice a day at some point.

I believe their position would be that the actual time is the time they're looking at, and, just because you tilt your head, and thus see the numbers on the clock a bit differently, it does not mean the time has changed.

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Nicodemus]

I believe their position would be that the actual time is the time they're looking at, and, just because you tilt your head, and thus see the numbers on the clock a bit differently, it does not mean the time has changed.

Yeah, they would...

 

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, they would...

And it would be a perfectly reasonable response, if astrology is true.

 

[violet_crown]

I'm bored and willing to offer up my chart interpretation services, if y'all are interested.

Post a chart. Ask a question. Tag me in it.

 

[Hive]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Here's my chart:

I got a few questions:

What does the colored lines scribbled all over the chart mean?

What are the stairs to the bottom left and the symbols in the squares?

And also, what can you tell about me based on the chart?

Very much looking forward to your answer.

 

[Freesia]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Here's another:

I don't know much about astrology, but I'm interested in learning.

 

[Vasilisa]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Anything strike you?

 

[011235813]

And mine. [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

(Do you regret your generous offer yet? )

 

[violet_crown]

Never.

I'll start doing interpretations tonight, and will try to get to everyone no later than Sun. If anyone else wants a reading, then shoot it to me sooner than later.

 

[chickpea]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Because you offered a long time ago and I forgot about it

 

[Ghost]

Someone was talking about Astromatrix in Vent, so I had a look-see. It looks very interesting. I've never seen these detailed astrology profiles before. Here's my Personality Image Matrix from Astromatrix. (Of course, Selfishness is at the top.)

This is my natal chart from Cafe Astrology. So lopsided. It isn't pretty.

Astromatrix shows no planets for the air element. Is that supposed to mean anything?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]
In a case you'll have some time and energy could you look at my natal chart? I am really interested in your interpretation .

 

[violet_crown]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Here's another:

I don't know much about astrology, but I'm interested in learning.

(I had this whole thing written out and half of it got deleted. I'm gonna do my best to reproduce what I saw originally.)

What stands out immediately about your chart is the stellium of most of your personal planets between your Scorpio ruled 8th house and Sag ruled 9th house. Your chart is governed by Pluto, meaning that things like power, sex death and transformation are key themes in your life. You're a person of intense ideals and passions, although you may tend to take a more esoteric/cerebral/philosophical approach to many of these themes as a native sun in sagittarius. Nonetheless, there's a lot of fire and intense idealism that's indicated by the placement of your stellium.

As sort of a counter balance to that are the two squares that I mentioned in your chart to Saturn and Mars respectively. Saturn is an interesting planet in that it has sort of a bad rep in astrology, or is at least somewhat misunderstood. Traditionally called one of the "malefic" planets, whenever Saturn is in aspect to another planet, it has a restricting effect. Saturn is astrologies stern dad that tells you that you can't have what you want in life without doing the real work to attain that thing. The impact is that the other aspected planet is more self-conscious in its expression. Because Saturn is square your Sun, Moon, Mercury Jupiter, Pluto stellium, this innately powerful person that I described before may often feel somewhat undercut or less than than they might be otherwise. Squares imply conflict and tension. The structure of this one says on the one hand that you have these deep passions and convictions, but on the other you may feel unworthy of living out those dreams. Adding to this is the other square with Mars, which governs passion, drive, motivation and ambition, which suggests that for all you may have these ideals, you frequently lack the will to act them out, or the will to act on your passions may only come in irregular spurts

Handling squares is not easy, but not impossible. Squares are internally created, and generally speaking are most difficult to handle when we are young and are still getting used to how to handle the energies involved. In psychological terms, they'd be referred to as "complexes". The best way to handle them is to find common ground between the two entities involved. In the case of the Saturn square, the rules are pretty simple: if you're passionate about something, do you have the material means to actualize your vision? If and when you do, Saturn won't have much to say about what happens next. On the other hand, if you're getting so caught up in the minutia and lose the passion, then you've got to do what you can to re-stoak the flame of the stellium. Handling the Mars square iwould be something more along the lines of knowing how to act deliberately rather than impulsively, doing what you can to make sure that your actions are in line with your ideals and not self-sabotaging them.

Since Mars and Saturn are in opposition, it's appropriate to think of these three points as a kind of system: passion (stellium), pragmatism (saturn) and action (mars). If you can get those three things to line up, you'll be the dynamo that your chart says you have the potential to be.

Hope this was helpful!

 

[violet_crown]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Anything strike you?

Vasi, since I did your interpretation on Vent earlier do you want me to reproduce it here? Or are you happy with the reading I did earlier?

 

[Freesia]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

Thanks This was definitely helpful and I'll try to incorporate this information moving forward.

 

[Vasilisa]

Wind-up Rex: you've got a stellium in 11th house leo with most of your personal planets
there's a kind of romance to that
like all of sagittarius searching energy, but given a more grounded leonine energy
the sun is the most dominant planet in your chart
mmm. getting away from the mechanics a little bit, this is like the chart of a first lady
or an ambassadors wife
it's got a left hand emphasis, which bespeaks someone who's more comfortable in the public sphere
and strongly oriented towards midheaven, which also suggests a native whos comfortable in the public eye
but the placements are all very elegant from the sun/moon combination
to the pluto in libra
idk. i'm just rambling here

if i was gonna pick out a challenge to this native, it would be that everything is*so* public
*so* externally oriented
that i'd wonder what they call theirs?
like this is the chart of a princess who spent her entire life knowing
that her life would belong to the state
all the private houses are empty, and most of the placements are in latter signs
very old soul
even the ascendant fascinates me because it's like the ascendant is already the public face
but then on top of that you've got pluto in libra
so it's like there's a sort of a gamification of the public face
like the native would know exactly how to leverage the power of the public persona to get what he or she wanted

as for relationships, one of the few non-left handed placements that you have is chiron in taurus in the 7th
so chiron is an asteroid whos story is taken from the old centaur teacher
he was wounded after pissing off some god or another, and the wound because it was divine was unhealable
but he was a great teacher of heroes
perseus, jason, achilles
all were taught by chiron
so the myth with chiron goes that where we are touched by chiron, there's an inner woundedness
because we're capable of perceiving that area of our lives in sort of ideal terms
so for you with chiron placed in 7th house taurus
it pertains to issues of self-worth and esteem in relationships
that's the place of your greatest personal wounding
but also the place where you're most able to teach others
which is ironic given the heavy leo emphasis in your chart
leos tend to be naturally confident people
chiron also touches your mercury via square
which points to some difficulty in being able to communicate
or feeling you should be able to do it better than you do

skipping around a little bit to another sort of dominant theme that sticks out is the pluto sextile neptune
that's a cool combination because it's like the connection of the subconscious with one's sense of force and destiny
like manifesting the unconscious energies of ones time
let's see if i can put this a bit more concretely
like neptune is the sense of merging with the ultimate
it's the point of dissolve with the more
and that dreamy, liquid feeling of oneness
pluto is about desire, power and the will to such things
idk. it's a very political aspect
because its like you have the connection of neptune
that sense of greater community
with the power of pluto

here's a slightly less garbled explanation:
"Energy representing intuitive, spiritual, compassionate, psychic nature has opportunity for growth, exchange, and harmony in relation with energies of destiny, and capacity to transform the self and the outer world."
the second most powerful aspect in your chart is jupiter square uranus:
"Energy representing enthusiastic, faithful, wise, expansive, spontaneous nature is in conflict with energies of individuality, desires for change, and tendency to go against social norms. Adaptation is required by both sides."

those are two important archetypes in your chart
pluto sextile neptune
and jupiter square uranus
but i think they map on to what i was describing before about the interplay between your inner and outer nature, vasi
i think you'll always be pulled externally. to be the person that people want to see
to "play" the part rather than live it
and i think if you can find what drives you inside
your "fi" if you will
and link that to this greater connection that you have with the world at large
you'd be unstoppable
seriously, though. you'd be a killer at diplomacy
if you've ever considered it

what do you think? do you have any other questions?

Vasilisa: so the personal relationships is where i have a weakness, but a talent for assisting, is there any hint of being able to strengthen my own skills, or is it dependent on like you said the tapping into drive and Fi

Wind-up Rex: which skills are you referring to? in terms of the chiron placement?

Vasilisa: skills in maintaining friendships, finding lasting love i guess
lasting partnerships you know
things can be so transitory for me

Wind-up Rex: mmm. the chiron placement is more interpersonal relationships in general
my experience with chiron is that on a certain level you have to "embrace the suck"
being willing to sit with your pain in that area and parse out what's real and what's just sorta existential back wash
just because a relationship doesn’t live up to some perfect notion you have in your head
doesn’t mean that it's invalid
or, conversely, dealing with the feeling that you have to work extra hard to get the things that seem to come naturally to other people
like, you have to give up more than usual just to have a friend
mmm. there's an article i can send you about chiron. it's good stuff
might help

Vasilisa: so does it influence your notion of my enneagram type?

Wind-up Rex: http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/10/01/synastry-studies-chiron-an-overview/
http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/10/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound/
those are a couple of articles on chiron that might be helpful

honestly, your chart would suggest 3w4
as opposed to anything else
it's definitely not a 9s chart
4w3 is possible
but it's really a 3s chart
lot of drive, power and elegance
difficulty with formulating inward sense of self
strong sense of what is outwardly valued
or an innate sense for sussing such things out

Vasilisa: does anything in there speak to my melancholy or is it a response to not tapping into that drive or do you see anything like that

Wind-up Rex: there's kind of two things that stand out in response to that
one is saturn square mars
and the other is neptune semi-square sun
the first aspect says to me that your natural sense of drive often feels undermined somehow
or not quite good enough
like when you go towards something too directly
it will be thwarted
and you have to do your homework more than most people, perhaps
saturn square mars is a perfectionist aspect
now the upshot of it is, when you're able to overcome that inertia
you're unshakeable in what you do
like, can't be stopped or deterred

the second aspect that i mentioned
sun semi-square neptune
perhaps some tendency towards self-deception
not intentional
but you set yourself up for disappointment sometimes
by perceiving things as you wish they were
rather than how they are
the flip side of that is
you see beauty in things that most people do not
like you see the deep, inner goodness of those around you
in a way that most can't appreciate
it's just that sometimes those potentials never actualize
and you're left holding the bag in some regard
i think those two aspects could cause melancholy
both the sense of helplessness
and the disillusionment

but this goes back to the neptune-pluto aspect
i think your instincts are likely good most of the time
you're plugged into something real and valid
it just doesn't always manifest

i could also see that neptune-pluto thing as kind of a cassandra aspect
where you see things that people dont, warn them about them, and arent heard until it's too late
i can see that being isolating
following and trusting your instincts is pretty key
even if they're wrong
or misguided
you can't be afraid to take the leap sometime

because i think depression is more about feeling helpless
than it is about being wrong
you can survive being wrong
feeling helpless will rot you out

Vasilisa: so public life?

Wind-up Rex: it would appear that you'd have a natural knack for that
but yeah, like i said, this is a first lady's chart. or a diplomat
or like a spy a la valerie plame

Vasilisa: do you see vices?

Wind-up Rex: mmm. sure
pride and expensive taste
maybe vanity as well
but not excess
everything in good taste
maybe a touch shallow lol, but not vapid

Vasilisa: so putting myself out there
tapping into my Fi

Wind-up Rex: those things are not disconnected
finding something you want and putting yourself out there for that reason
i dont imagine you'd take an uncalculated risk
nor should you
but mostly keeping in mind what you value
what's important to you
so when you play the game
you dont get lost in it
does that make sense?

Vasilisa: yes
anything surprise you? i mean maybe besides the public aspect?

Wind-up Rex: aspect that most surprised me was the pluto conjunct ascendant in libra
that's a pretty potent set-up right there
it just implies that there's more of a gatekeeper to you than i would have originally suspected , vasi
and perhaps that works together with the chiron aspcet
that you perhaps dont let people in because of that wound
and perhaps that would persists because you have those walls
/shrug

Vasilisa: i think its related to moving so much in my youth and having people come in and leave and over and over
not certain tho

Wind-up Rex: i can see that, darlin :/
some of it just may be who you are
and that's ok

Vasilisa: is there any threat you could see, like external, like a sign i should avoid or anything
sorry its silly

Wind-up Rex: i dont really think that there's a sign you should avoid, per se
i think that if you were looking for a chart, you might consider finding someone who balanced you out
maybe someone with a strong right hand emphasis
for some reason i think a nice taurus or aries would suit you well, vasi
a cap, depending on what his deal was, would find you attractive
but heighten certain traits that are already there
and depending on what you're going for that could be a good or a bad thing
you could be very much an "It" couple with a cap guy
barack and michelle are a pretty famous leo/cap couple, for instance

Vasilisa: so public life maybe more than family?

Wind-up Rex: i dont see why you couldnt have both
i just think that the public side is where you'll feel more comfortable
and at home
than with 2.5 and a suburban

Vasi, since I did your interpretation on Vent earlier do you want me to reproduce it here? Or are you happy with the reading I did earlier?

Thank you so and no, unless something is missing here.

 

[mintleaf]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] Could you take a look at mine whenever you have time?