Zarathustra's Astrology Thread, or, Where An INTJ (Foolishly) Defends Astrology

[Nicodemus]

Hey, at least we have the best sign in the whole motherfucking zodiac.

Pah!

 

[011235813]

Pah!

Really? You would pick a GOAT over a centaur? REALLY?!

 

[prplchknz]

I don't believe in astrology but I pretend to, to see what people say about it. I don't fit in with my supposed sign, and people always say that.

 

[Zarathustra]

I don't believe in astrology but I pretend to, to see what people say about it. I don't fit in with my supposed sign, and people always say that.

What's your Sun sign?

Moon sign? Rising?

And have you ever studied your natal chart?

 

[prplchknz]

What's your Sun sign?

Moon sign? Rising?

And have you ever studied your natal chart?

my sun: scorpio
my moon: taurus
my risen: pisces

and my friend did my chart 5 years ago I'll try and see if I can find it and copy and paste it here

Basics—

You are generally perceptive and insightful. Regardless of what walk of life you inhabit, you often make statements about what is going on around you that attracts attention. Everything interests you, but particularly matters of a social or political nature. Whether you cull your knowledge from reading newspapers, watching tv or studying historical or sociological books, you tend to have strong opinions about how things work or don’t work as the case may be.

You often find yourself divided between a rational, common-sense apprehension of the world (atheistic or agnostic, respectively) on the one hand and traditional religious convictions on the other. Though likely a strict rationalist in your early life to middle years, you may at some point undergo a powerful conversion to spiritual or religious belief system. When undergoing this process of conversion you may not feel it necessary to abandon logic or reason, but rather make it work for yourself in finding ever-new support for your beliefs. You would however never be a zealot who believes blindly, but rather an optimist whose faith is based on seeing the world around you.

You are nonetheless convicted to your point of view. Though opposed to all forms of injustice, you may express your opinions in a dogmatic or authoritarian fashion. Thus it is important that you make a conscious effort to listen openly to the opposing side and whether they agree with what is said or not, take in what is useful to them.

Above all, you are a realist, and therefore for the most part are immune to false schemes and dubious arguments. You react strongly against any system you consider unworthy of your loyalty, whether it be a company, association, union or club. Cultivating modesty and simplicity is a key for them, as well as never forgetting your roots, no matter how far away you find yourself from home, literally or figuratively.

Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Taurus

You have a fixed course in life and seldom are torn by indecision. Your cheerful manner assures that you are cut out for social and business pursuits. Your temperament and persistence give you the ability to attract interesting ventures and to see them through to the end. You seek security, both financial and domestic, which appeals to your practical nature.

Your Taurean determination can point to a generally lethargic and somewhat static personality. Fortunately, the Scorpian love of show will counterbalance the slow and passive elements of your personality.

In love you fix your desire on your chosen partner with earthiness and great sexual passion. The key to a more harmonious self lies in cultivating forgiveness. You should also try to be less stubborn about your ideas and the people you deal with.



Ascendant in Pisces, Neptune in the Tenth House

At the time of your birth the zodiacal sign of Pisces was ascending in the horizon. Its ruler Neptune is located in the tenth house.

Usually, because of the dual nature of this sign, your experiences seem always to oscillate between two extremes. Emotionally, you may become confounded and perplexed when your soul is torn between opposite attractions. Your temperament is, nevertheless, kindly and able to appreciate the most subtle emotional experiences.

You are inclined to introverted living - reserved and retiring. You would do well to gear your life to occupations where your creativeness can be expressed freely.

Your life will be replete with flux and change, and yet this will not be a source of annoyance as you are most adaptable to situations.

Essentially, you are expansive, guided by intuition and emotion, and falling very easily into elated or depressive moods.

You have a natural ability to perceive from unknown sources where the mind does not intervene. Such an ability, unfortunately, is usually misunderstood or has little application in life. If you do become involved in art, however, there are very good prospects for success as a painter, musician, writer, or poet.

Your sexual life will be highly varied and intense. When you fall in love, you feel as if the limitations of your personality are dissolving and you are receptive to everything that exists.

You need a strong hand to protect you and lead you into the practical world. Generally, you have inclinations and tendencies for the following: professions dealing with occult matter or mediumships, religion, seafaring, acting, psychometry, clairvoyance, painting, poetry, mysticism, and espionage.

The ruler of your life events, Neptune, here, is an indication that you may find it hard to determine definite goals in your life. Most of your effort will be expanding climbing the social ladder by obscure and mystical methods, and it might be difficult to obtain material success.



Moon in the Second House

The Moon was found in the second house at the time of your birth. Your business dealings and means of income will consist of a multiplicity of activities where you must relate to many people. The position is generally good.

Occupationally, you are going to be inclined to pursue money through popular activities.

In any case, expect a fortune which holds variation and fluctuation. Try to orient your monetary dealings to the general public for you possess the ability to succeed when in touch with the popular masses.



Sun in the Eighth House

The Sun was found in your eighth house at the time of birth. This inclines your individuality to be oriented, in one way or another, to the deeper sides of life. Your sexual feelings are long-lasting, intense, and vital. Your inner self seems attracted to unusual matters related to the termination of life-death and its mysteries.

Traditional astrology indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life. If this period is successfully spanned you can expect a prolonged life with a gradual heightening vitality.

Financially, there are definite chances for money inherited from either your partner or from another relative.



Venus in the Eighth House

Venus was found in your eighth house at the time of birth. This is a favorable position regarding the possibilities of financial gain through businesses owned by your partner or by associates.

Psychologically, you are going to find many harmonious conditions in your sexual relationships.

If your inner growth is such that your vital energies are oriented toward spiritual rather than material pleasures, then you will arrive at gratification and happiness through inquiry into the mysteries of life and death.

You should have some excellent opportunities for progress in your financial and social condition during your middle age or when you finally stabilize your life through marriage or any other type of close relationship.



Saturn in the Ninth House

Saturn was found in the ninth house at the time of birth. This indicates that your concern over the impermanence of all things will urge you to restrict your personality traits and assume a position of caution and planning before pursuing any important matter.

In a practical sense, your attitude to all higher intellectual functions is that of a studious, serious, and meditative person. You must, however, be attentive to the possible presence of several challenging elements in your intellectual make-up such as depression, fear, and severity.



Love, Flirtation, Sex—

Ascendant in Pisces

You are highly empathic, and your physical involvement with a lover is directly geared to your emotional and psychic involvement.

Once you have found the partner you want, you are the most willing and supple lover, but you must take care that your own personality does not get lost in the process. It's better not to offer that temptation; be gentle and giving, but retain your individuality and independence.

In general, you will be happiest with a lover whose sexual consciousness is rather highly developed.



Sun in Scorpio

Of all the Sun signs, yours is the one most closely identified with sexuality. This is because you feel life intensely and need to express your passions in all that you do.

You will be very tempted to use your sexual magnetism to gain material or psychological advantage over your lover. For this reason you may attract less sophisticated partners whose naivete allows you to be in command.

You usually are very clear about what you desire, and you know it is worth waiting a long time to get what will satisfy you.

You tend to immerse yourself in an affair, then you are changed by it and finally become completely detached from it. Once an affair is over, it is finished for you forever. However, neither you nor your partner will be the same as when you met.



Sun in the Eighth House

This position gives sexuality a very physical form and makes tangible intimacy very important to you.

Because of your talent for intuition, you may have considerable subliminal power over others, so that you can control them without their knowledge. You must always be careful to use this "animal magnetism," which may be more or less psychic, in ways that do not take undue advantage of your partner or that get you into needless power games.

You may be attracted to a lover who is considerably older or younger than yourself, a situation in which one partner is a good deal more experienced and teaches the other. But no matter who you are involved with, intensity is your key word.



Moon in Taurus

You are a person of great emotional substance, and you provide an excellent shoulder for an upset lover to cry on. You are not easily or quickly angered, but once your ire is aroused, you are a formidable antagonist with a long memory for grievances.

You do not rush into a love affair, preferring to build it in careful stages.

Your preference is for straightforward simplicity in a relationship. You want your partner to tell you the truth at all times so you know right where you stand. In return, you are scrupulously honest with your lover, even when it hurts.

In a relationship you are a friend and lover your partner can always depend on, even in difficult times. You don't commit yourself lightly, and when you give your word, you stand by it, particularly a commitment given in love.



Moon in the Second House

Good physical health and financial well-being are necessary to your emotional security, and you are not likely to be happy in a money-starved love affair, no matter how romantic.

You may demand expensive presents or love tokens from a partner to assuage problems between you. Although it is perfectly legitimate to treasure gifts of love for their emotional value, this can be dangerous, because you are dodging problems whose roots lie elsewhere.

Your basic desire for honesty and integrity in a relationship should lead you around this obstacle, for you are guided by a strong set of fundamental values.



Venus in Scorpio

You have a very deep, gut-level style in love, and when you set your sights on someone, you don't give up until you get what you want.

Indeed, it is extremity of enjoyment rather than moderation that is the key to your pleasure.

Whatever your method, your enjoyment will be greatest if sexuality takes on the aspect of tremendous power, an uncontrollable flood in which both of you are caught up. This is ideal for the actual sexual experience, but in everyday life you should take great care to let control return to both of you individually, so that the basic equality between you is not lost.



Venus in the Eighth House

You strive for relationships that are very intense and therefore quite involved. You may be drawn toward people who seem mysterious or challenging in some way, which can have both good and bad results.

You find little satisfaction in the intellectual trappings of love, and you require plenty of physical attention within a relationship. Therefore, you are happiest with a demonstrative lover who pays attention to your physical as well as your emotional needs.

The more you can lose yourself in a love affair, particularly in its sexual aspects, the more satisfying it will be. Just try not to let your life outside of the relationship become unbalanced by it.



Mars in Aquarius

Your style of expression is multifaceted, and you focus on exploring a number of forms of fulfillment rather than developing one particular area. Ideally, you should find a partner who wants to be as wide-ranging as you are, combining variety with truly satisfying intimacy.

You go out of your way to discover and fulfill all your lover's fantasies. But be sure to avoid jealous lovers, for you must remain free to express your personality, even if you do not choose to exercise that freedom.



Mars in the Twelfth House

You have a needling desire to realize your deepest and most out-of-the-way motivations, both sexual and otherwise. For this reason you are willing to give up much in a relationship in order to explore the unknown.

Do not wander into strange territory without carefully finding out about it first, for your tendency to act rashly could lead you into trouble.

If you are careful, the rewards will be well worth the risks, and the fulfillment you experience will be special and unique to you.

Forecast—

Pluto trine Moon: News from the psyche

End of January 2009 until end of November 2010: This is a period of profound emotional experiences, which should be extremely positive and creative for your overall growth and evolution. You are concerned with making your life more profound and emotionally rewarding. No longer satisfied with living at the surface, you want to feel in your heart everything that until now you have understood only with your mind. At the same time your mental understanding will become more profound because it will be based on intuition as well as on logic. This deepening experience of life will affect your relationships as well. In fact it may very well bring about an important new relationship, which may or may not be sexual. In any case you can be sure it will be emotionally profound and a positive learning experience in which you will discover a great deal about your inner psyche.

Even your existing relationships will now have a great deal more emotional content than they have had and will become the source of much self-discovery. Again you need have little fear for the stability of these relationships.

The most important discovery you will make about yourself during this time concerns the workings of your subconscious patterns, the unconscious habits and patterns that you carry from your past. This is an excellent time for psychotherapy or other consciousness- expanding therapies. It is not that you need them necessarily, but they would be extremely effective at this time.

In your personal and home life you will have a chance to make positive changes. You can make repairs, construct new buildings and generally expand your activities. Your home life should be deeper and more emotionally rewarding now than at other times. This is often a good time for buying real estate, especially if you plan to live on it.



Pluto conjunction Neptune: Inward transformation

Beginning of March 2009 until beginning of October 2011: This influence signifies a period of very deep inward transformation that will be reflected in changed ideals, goals and many other aspects of your world view. You may also work harder than ever to bring about in reality an ideal that you have held for years. However, you will have to give up a great deal to accomplish this, and you will not receive much ego- reinforcement at the time, even if you are successful.

You will find it necessary to question very deeply many beliefs you have held as a matter of course all your life. You may become disoriented as you discover that you have been living under illusions. But at least you will not be alone, for this is one of the influences that affect everyone in one age group at about the same time. In fact, the need to change your ideals may come through your peer group. It would be a good idea to discuss this with someone who is much older or younger and who is not suffering the effects of this influence, in order to get a better perspective on what is happening to you. If you begin psychotherapy now, which is quite possible, you should not choose a therapist of your own age. While he or she might understand you, he cannot give you a different perspective.

Many elements of your life - relationships, job situations, places - may pass away now, but this is only a reflection of the profound changes taking place within you. After this period is over you may find it hard to recognize the person you were before.

Whatever you choose to do, it would be a good idea to study a subject that will give you greater understanding about your life. Astrology, the occult, metaphysics or even depth psychology might serve this purpose. But don't get lost in abstractions: make sure that what you learn has real consequences in your everyday life, because you have great needs there that should be met. Also your studies should give you very deep understanding. Nothing superficial would help you at this time.



Saturn square Neptune: Keep it simple

Beginning of December 2009 until beginning of September 2010: This influence signifies a time of great uncertainty and possible confusion. Your objectives are unclear, and you may feel incapable of coping with even the ordinary details of your everyday life. One of the best ways to cope with this influence is to make your everyday life as simple as possible, because you are so easily overwhelmed at this time.

This is not a time of robust confidence. You are questioning almost every aspect of your life, particularly your goals and ambitions, your ability to attain them and even whether you are worthy of attaining them.

At the same time you may feel that your universe is constructed in such a way that you cannot ever live up to your ideals. Disappointment, discouragement and pessimism are all likely effects of this influence. The danger is that this kind of negative thinking may actually undermine your effectiveness in your work or other important activities. Feeling insecure often creates circumstances in which you really are insecure. Do not take things so seriously! Your negative state of mind is probably not justified by the facts of your life. This is just one of those times when your spirits seem to sag.

You should try to hang on without making any permanent decisions or commitments on the basis of your current pessimistic views. In a short time, you will understand that right now your view of reality is changing in a way that ultimately should be very constructive, although it does not seem so now. About two years from now, you will be able to make constructive changes in your life based upon your new understanding. This is probably not the best time to make changes.



Jupiter conjunction Jupiter: Wonderful opportunities

10 March 2010 until 18 March 2010: This influence indicates the beginning of a new cycle of growth and progress. However, it is often the focus of exaggerated expectations. You may expect sudden windfalls, great wealth or luck, and all kinds of wonderful opportunities. And these things do happen sometimes with this influence, but most people should expect more subtle, but equally useful effects.

Events now, such as meetings with persons or even changes in your psyche, open the way for you to become wiser and more mature and to have a broader understanding of the world. At this time you will reach out consciously and unconsciously and ask more of the world, but at the same time you are willing to give more to the world.

This influence can make you feel either more demanding or more giving toward others, but you are not likely to get much out of it if you think only of what you can get. The law of conservation of energy in the universe says that you can transform the energies in your life from one form to another, but you cannot create them out of nothing. This influence represents a time when you should see whether you are doing that in your life.

Concretely, you can expect persons who are good for you to come into your life. Or circumstances will arise that give you increased freedom or an opportunity to do something that you have never done before. Educational opportunities may come to you at this time, or a chance to travel. Sometimes this influence does in fact bring about financial advantage, but you should not sit around passively waiting for it to happen.



Jupiter conjunction Ascendant: Beware of airs

6 April 2010 until 15 April 2010: During this period you feel good and project warm positive energies out into the world. This in turn affects your relationships very positively and enables you to encounter people who can be good for you precisely because you are good for them. In all personal and professional transactions with others you will give and receive in equal measure.

Personal relationships expand under this influence. If you have been living in a relatively small circle of friends and acquaintances, you will expand your circle and meet people whom you wouldn't ordinarily, possibly including the rich and famous or people in power. Just be careful that you don't become involved with these people for superficial reasons; make sure that you can grow through them. The fact that a person is socially significant may not have any relevance to your relationship.

The basis for all this is that in a very real sense you are growing and taking more and more of the outer world into your personal sphere. You are trying to include more of the world in your experience. Properly handled, this process can make you a much wiser and more mature individual. Your view of life should expand, and you should become increasingly tolerant of the wide differences among people in the world. You have the opportunity to become a woman of the world to a much greater extent.

At this time, you should be careful not to assume arrogant airs or to think that you are better than you are. You are probably a fine person, but that does not mean that you are necessarily better than everyone else. Think in terms of your personal growth, not in terms of your status with respect to others.



Jupiter trine Sun: A sense of humor

18 April 2010 until 28 April 2010: This is such a pleasant influence that you may be inclined to sit back, enjoy it and do nothing. However, this is really a very important time in your life because you can reach out into new areas of life and have new and rewarding experiences. Your creative potential is enormous at this time, and you can very easily accomplish a great deal that would be difficult at other times. Your inner energies are strong, and you are full of self-confidence and the feeling that you can do anything.

This influence usually indicates good health and a feeling of well-being, although you may be inclined to put on weight if you are not careful. You may not feel inclined toward physical activity, but it would be a good idea to get some exercise. Make a particular effort to be outdoors. Hiking is a very beneficial activity at this time.

If you are inclined to physical activity, especially athletics, don't take foolish risks through overconfidence. This influence tends to make you overestimate your energies.

This is an excellent time for all financial matters. You will feel like making your surroundings appear more elegant, and you may spend quite a lot of money doing so. This is perfectly fine, and you should think positively in all ways, but don't let this concern with material acquisition blind you to some very real possibilities for inner growth.

Travel, either physically or mentally, often accompanies this influence. Take this time to broaden your understanding of the world around you. You have a strong interest in ideas that are different from what you normally know and encounter, and you are much more tolerant of different ways of living. Even people's usually irritating traits do not bother you at this time. Also your sense of humor is much greater than usual, and you can appreciate the dance of life in all its glory.

 

[Zarathustra]

my sun: scorpio
my moon: taurus
my risen: pisces

Why do you think this combination doesn't make sense for you?

and my friend did my chart 5 years ago I'll try and see if I can find it and copy and paste it here

Basics—

You are generally perceptive and insightful. Regardless of what walk of life you inhabit, you often make statements about what is going on around you that attracts attention. Everything interests you, but particularly matters of a social or political nature. Whether you cull your knowledge from reading newspapers, watching tv or studying historical or sociological books, you tend to have strong opinions about how things work or don’t work as the case may be.

You often find yourself divided between a rational, common-sense apprehension of the world (atheistic or agnostic, respectively) on the one hand and traditional religious convictions on the other. Though likely a strict rationalist in your early life to middle years, you may at some point undergo a powerful conversion to spiritual or religious belief system. When undergoing this process of conversion you may... [excised for character limit]

You are nonetheless convicted to your point of view. Though opposed to all forms of injustice, you may express your opinions in a dogmatic or authoritarian fashion. Thus it is important that you make a conscious effort to listen openly to the opposing side and whether they agree with what is said or not, take in what is useful to them.

Above all, you are a realist, and therefore for the most part are immune to false schemes and dubious arguments. You react strongly against any system you consider unworthy of your loyalty, whether it be a company, association, union or club. Cultivating modesty and simplicity is a key for them, as well as never forgetting your roots, no matter how far away you find yourself from home, literally or figuratively.

Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Taurus

You have a fixed course in life and seldom are torn by indecision. Your cheerful manner assures that you are cut out for social and business pursuits. Your temperament and persistence give you the ability to attract interesting ventures and to see them through to the end. You seek security, both financial and domestic, which appeals to your practical nature.

Your Taurean determination can point to a generally lethargic and somewhat static personality. Fortunately, the Scorpian love of show will counterbalance the slow and passive elements of your personality.

In love you fix your desire on your chosen partner with earthiness and great sexual passion. The key to a more harmonious self lies in cultivating forgiveness. You should also try to be less stubborn about your ideas and the people you deal with.



Ascendant in Pisces, Neptune in the Tenth House

At the time of your birth the zodiacal sign of Pisces was ascending in the horizon. Its ruler Neptune is located in the tenth house.

Usually, because of the dual nature of this sign, your experiences seem always to oscillate between two extremes. Emotionally, you may become confounded and perplexed when your soul is torn between opposite attractions. Your temperament is, nevertheless, kindly and able to appreciate the most subtle emotional experiences.

You are inclined to introverted living - reserved and retiring. You would do well to gear your life to occupations where your creativeness can be expressed freely.

Your life will be replete with flux and change, and yet this will not be a source of annoyance as you are most adaptable to situations.

Essentially, you are expansive, guided by intuition and emotion, and falling very easily into elated or depressive moods.

You have a natural ability to perceive from unknown sources where the mind does not intervene. Such an ability, unfortunately, is usually misunderstood or has little application in life. If you do become involved in art, however, there are very good prospects for success as a painter, musician, writer, or poet.

Your sexual life will be highly varied and intense. When you fall in love, you feel as if the limitations of your personality are dissolving and you are receptive to everything that exists.

You need a strong hand to protect you and lead you into the practical world. Generally, you have inclinations and tendencies for the following: professions dealing with occult matter or mediumships, religion, seafaring, acting, psychometry, clairvoyance, painting, poetry, mysticism, and espionage.

The ruler of your life events, Neptune, here, is an indication that you may find it hard to determine definite goals in your life. Most of your effort will be expanding climbing the social ladder by obscure and mystical methods, and it might be difficult to obtain material success.



Moon in the Second House

The Moon was found in the second house at the time of your birth. Your business dealings and means of income will consist of a multiplicity of activities where you must relate to many people. The position is generally good.

Occupationally, you are going to be inclined to pursue money through popular activities.

In any case, expect a fortune which holds variation and fluctuation. Try to orient your monetary dealings to the general public for you possess the ability to succeed when in touch with the popular masses.



Sun in the Eighth House

The Sun was found in your eighth house at the time of birth. This inclines your individuality to be oriented, in one way or another, to the deeper sides of life. Your sexual feelings are long-lasting, intense, and vital. Your inner self seems attracted to unusual matters related to the termination of life-death and its mysteries.

Traditional astrology indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life. If this period is successfully spanned you can expect a prolonged life with a gradual heightening vitality.

Financially, there are definite chances for money inherited from either your partner or from another relative.



Venus in the Eighth House

Venus was found in your eighth house at the time of birth. This is a favorable position regarding the possibilities of financial gain through businesses owned by your partner or by associates.

Psychologically, you are going to find many harmonious conditions in your sexual relationships.

If your inner growth is such that your vital energies are oriented toward spiritual rather than material pleasures, then you will arrive at gratification and happiness through inquiry into the mysteries of life and death.

You should have some excellent opportunities for progress in your financial and social condition during your middle age or when you finally stabilize your life through marriage or any other type of close relationship.



Saturn in the Ninth House

Saturn was found in the ninth house at the time of birth. This indicates that your concern over the impermanence of all things will urge you to restrict your personality traits and assume a position of caution and planning before pursuing any important matter.

In a practical sense, your attitude to all higher intellectual functions is that of a studious, serious, and meditative person. You must, however, be attentive to the possible presence of several challenging elements in your intellectual make-up such as depression, fear, and severity.



Love, Flirtation, Sex—

Ascendant in Pisces

You are highly empathic, and your physical involvement with a lover is directly geared to your emotional and psychic involvement.

Once you have found the partner you want, you are the most willing and supple lover, but you must take care that your own personality does not get lost in the process. It's better not to offer that temptation; be gentle and giving, but retain your individuality and independence.

In general, you will be happiest with a lover whose sexual consciousness is rather highly developed.



Sun in Scorpio

Of all the Sun signs, yours is the one most closely identified with sexuality. This is because you feel life intensely and need to express your passions in all that you do.

You will be very tempted to use your sexual magnetism to gain material or psychological advantage over your lover. For this reason you may attract less sophisticated partners whose naivete allows you to be in command.

You usually are very clear about what you desire, and you know it is worth waiting a long time to get what will satisfy you.

You tend to immerse yourself in an affair, then you are changed by it and finally become completely detached from it. Once an affair is over, it is finished for you forever. However, neither you nor your partner will be the same as when you met.



Sun in the Eighth House

This position gives sexuality a very physical form and makes tangible intimacy very important to you.

Because of your talent for intuition, you may have considerable subliminal power over others, so that you can control them without their knowledge. You must always be careful to use this "animal magnetism," which may be more or less psychic, in ways that do not take undue advantage of your partner or that get you into needless power games.

You may be attracted to a lover who is considerably older or younger than yourself, a situation in which one partner is a good deal more experienced and teaches the other. But no matter who you are involved with, intensity is your key word.



Moon in Taurus

You are a person of great emotional substance, and you provide an excellent shoulder for an upset lover to cry on. You are not easily or quickly angered, but once your ire is aroused, you are a formidable antagonist with a long memory for grievances.

You do not rush into a love affair, preferring to build it in careful stages.

Your preference is for straightforward simplicity in a relationship. You want your partner to tell you the truth at all times so you know right where you stand. In return, you are scrupulously honest with your lover, even when it hurts.

In a relationship you are a friend and lover your partner can always depend on, even in difficult times. You don't commit yourself lightly, and when you give your word, you stand by it, particularly a commitment given in love.



Moon in the Second House

Good physical health and financial well-being are necessary to your emotional security, and you are not likely to be happy in a money-starved love affair, no matter how romantic.

You may demand expensive presents or love tokens from a partner to assuage problems between you. Although it is perfectly legitimate to treasure gifts of love for their emotional value, this can be dangerous, because you are dodging problems whose roots lie elsewhere.

Your basic desire for honesty and integrity in a relationship should lead you around this obstacle, for you are guided by a strong set of fundamental values.



Venus in Scorpio

You have a very deep, gut-level style in love, and when you set your sights on someone, you don't give up until you get what you want.

Indeed, it is extremity of enjoyment rather than moderation that is the key to your pleasure.

Whatever your method, your enjoyment will be greatest if sexuality takes on the aspect of tremendous power, an uncontrollable flood in which both of you are caught up. This is ideal for the actual sexual experience, but in everyday life you should take great care to let control return to both of you individually, so that the basic equality between you is not lost.



Venus in the Eighth House

You strive for relationships that are very intense and therefore quite involved. You may be drawn toward people who seem mysterious or challenging in some way, which can have both good and bad results.

You find little satisfaction in the intellectual trappings of love, and you require plenty of physical attention within a relationship. Therefore, you are happiest with a demonstrative lover who pays attention to your physical as well as your emotional needs.

The more you can lose yourself in a love affair, particularly in its sexual aspects, the more satisfying it will be. Just try not to let your life outside of the relationship become unbalanced by it.



Mars in Aquarius

Your style of expression is multifaceted, and you focus on exploring a number of forms of fulfillment rather than developing one particular area. Ideally, you should find a partner who wants to be as wide-ranging as you are, combining variety with truly satisfying intimacy.

You go out of your way to discover and fulfill all your lover's fantasies. But be sure to avoid jealous lovers, for you must remain free to express your personality, even if you do not choose to exercise that freedom.



Mars in the Twelfth House

You have a needling desire to realize your deepest and most out-of-the-way motivations, both sexual and otherwise. For this reason you are willing to give up much in a relationship in order to explore the unknown.

Do not wander into strange territory without carefully finding out about it first, for your tendency to act rashly could lead you into trouble.

If you are careful, the rewards will be well worth the risks, and the fulfillment you experience will be special and unique to you.

Forecast—

Pluto trine Moon: News from the psyche

End of January 2009 until end of November 2010: This is a period of profound emotional experiences, which should be extremely positive and creative for your overall growth and evolution. You are concerned with making your life more profound and emotionally rewarding. No longer satisfied with living at the surface, you want to feel in your heart everything that until now you have understood only with your mind. At the same time your mental understanding will become more profound because it will be based on intuition as well as on logic. This deepening experience of life will affect your relationships as well. In fact it may very well bring about an important new relationship, which may or may not be sexual. In any case you can be sure it will be emotionally profound and a positive learning experience in which you will discover a great deal about your inner psyche.

Even your existing relationships will now have a great deal more emotional content than they have had and will become the source of much self-discovery. Again you need have little fear for the stability of these relationships.

The most important discovery you will make about yourself during this time concerns the workings of your subconscious patterns, the unconscious habits and patterns that you carry from your past. This is an excellent time for psychotherapy or other consciousness- expanding therapies. It is not that you need them necessarily, but they would be extremely effective at this time.

In your personal and home life you will have a chance to make positive changes. You can make repairs, construct new buildings and generally expand your activities. Your home life should be deeper and more emotionally rewarding now than at other times. This is often a good time for buying real estate, especially if you plan to live on it.



Pluto conjunction Neptune: Inward transformation

Beginning of March 2009 until beginning of October 2011: This influence signifies a period of very deep inward transformation that will be reflected in changed ideals, goals and many other aspects of your world view. You may also work harder than ever to bring about in reality an ideal that you have held for years. However, you will have to give up a great deal to accomplish this, and you will not receive much ego- reinforcement at the time, even if you are successful.

You will find it necessary to question very deeply many beliefs you have held as a matter of course all your life. You may become disoriented as you discover that you have been living under illusions. But at least you will not be alone, for this is one of the influences that affect everyone in one age group at about the same time. In fact, the need to change your ideals may come through your peer group. It would be a good idea to discuss this with someone who is much older or younger and who is not suffering the effects of this influence, in order to get a better perspective on what is happening to you. If you begin psychotherapy now, which is quite possible, you should not choose a therapist of your own age. While he or she might understand you, he cannot give you a different perspective.

Many elements of your life - relationships, job situations, places - may pass away now, but this is only a reflection of the profound changes taking place within you. After this period is over you may find it hard to recognize the person you were before.

Whatever you choose to do, it would be a good idea to study a subject that will give you greater understanding about your life. Astrology, the occult, metaphysics or even depth psychology might serve this purpose. But don't get lost in abstractions: make sure that what you learn has real consequences in your everyday life, because you have great needs there that should be met. Also your studies should give you very deep understanding. Nothing superficial would help you at this time.



Saturn square Neptune: Keep it simple

Beginning of December 2009 until beginning of September 2010: This influence signifies a time of great uncertainty and possible confusion. Your objectives are unclear, and you may feel incapable of coping with even the ordinary details of your everyday life. One of the best ways to cope with this influence is to make your everyday life as simple as possible, because you are so easily overwhelmed at this time.

This is not a time of robust confidence. You are questioning almost every aspect of your life, particularly your goals and ambitions, your ability to attain them and even whether you are worthy of attaining them.

At the same time you may feel that your universe is constructed in such a way that you cannot ever live up to your ideals. Disappointment, discouragement and pessimism are all likely effects of this influence. The danger is that this kind of negative thinking may actually undermine your effectiveness in your work or other important activities. Feeling insecure often creates circumstances in which you really are insecure. Do not take things so seriously! Your negative state of mind is probably not justified by the facts of your life. This is just one of those times when your spirits seem to sag.

You should try to hang on without making any permanent decisions or commitments on the basis of your current pessimistic views. In a short time, you will understand that right now your view of reality is changing in a way that ultimately should be very constructive, although it does not seem so now. About two years from now, you will be able to make constructive changes in your life based upon your new understanding. This is probably not the best time to make changes.



Jupiter conjunction Jupiter: Wonderful opportunities

10 March 2010 until 18 March 2010: This influence indicates the beginning of a new cycle of growth and progress. However, it is often the focus of exaggerated expectations. You may expect sudden windfalls, great wealth or luck, and all kinds of wonderful opportunities. And these things do happen sometimes with this influence, but most people should expect more subtle, but equally useful effects.

Events now, such as meetings with persons or even changes in your psyche, open the way for you to become wiser and more mature and to have a broader understanding of the world. At this time you will reach out consciously and unconsciously and ask more of the world, but at the same time you are willing to give more to the world.

This influence can make you feel either more demanding or more giving toward others, but you are not likely to get much out of it if you think only of what you can get. The law of conservation of energy in the universe says that you can transform the energies in your life from one form to another, but you cannot create them out of nothing. This influence represents a time when you should see whether you are doing that in your life.

Concretely, you can expect persons who are good for you to come into your life. Or circumstances will arise that give you increased freedom or an opportunity to do something that you have never done before. Educational opportunities may come to you at this time, or a chance to travel. Sometimes this influence does in fact bring about financial advantage, but you should not sit around passively waiting for it to happen.



Jupiter conjunction Ascendant: Beware of airs

6 April 2010 until 15 April 2010: During this period you feel good and project warm positive energies out into the world. This in turn affects your relationships very positively and enables you to encounter people who can be good for you precisely because you are good for them. In all personal and professional transactions with others you will give and receive in equal measure.

Personal relationships expand under this influence. If you have been living in a relatively small circle of friends and acquaintances, you will expand your circle and meet people whom you wouldn't ordinarily, possibly including the rich and famous or people in power. Just be careful that you don't become involved with these people for superficial reasons; make sure that you can grow through them. The fact that a person is socially significant may not have any relevance to your relationship.

The basis for all this is that in a very real sense you are growing and taking more and more of the outer world into your personal sphere. You are trying to include more of the world in your experience. Properly handled, this process can make you a much wiser and more mature individual. Your view of life should expand, and you should become increasingly tolerant of the wide differences among people in the world. You have the opportunity to become a woman of the world to a much greater extent.

At this time, you should be careful not to assume arrogant airs or to think that you are better than you are. You are probably a fine person, but that does not mean that you are necessarily better than everyone else. Think in terms of your personal growth, not in terms of your status with respect to others.



Jupiter trine Sun: A sense of humor

18 April 2010 until 28 April 2010: This is such a pleasant influence that you may be inclined to sit back, enjoy it and do nothing. However, this is really a very important time in your life because you can reach out into new areas of life and have new and rewarding experiences. Your creative potential is enormous at this time, and you can very easily accomplish a great deal that would be difficult at other times. Your inner energies are strong, and you are full of self-confidence and the feeling that you can do anything.

This influence usually indicates good health and a feeling of well-being, although you may be inclined to put on weight if you are not careful. You may not feel inclined toward physical activity, but it would be a good idea to get some exercise. Make a particular effort to be outdoors. Hiking is a very beneficial activity at this time.

If you are inclined to physical activity, especially athletics, don't take foolish risks through overconfidence. This influence tends to make you overestimate your energies.

This is an excellent time for all financial matters. You will feel like making your surroundings appear more elegant, and you may spend quite a lot of money doing so. This is perfectly fine, and you should think positively in all ways, but don't let this concern with material acquisition blind you to some very real possibilities for inner growth.

Travel, either physically or mentally, often accompanies this influence. Take this time to broaden your understanding of the world around you. You have a strong interest in ideas that are different from what you normally know and encounter, and you are much more tolerant of different ways of living. Even people's usually irritating traits do not bother you at this time. Also your sense of humor is much greater than usual, and you can appreciate the dance of life in all its glory.

I'm not a big fan of this reading.

It doesn't even have your planetary aspects, which, imo, are the most intriguing and important parts of a person's chart.

Haven't read it in detail, so won't speak to the accuracy of the interpretation, but I'd run your chart at one of these sites:
astromatrix.org
cafeastrology.com

 

[prplchknz]

Why do you think this combination doesn't make sense for you?



I'm not a big fan of this reading.

It doesn't even have your planetary aspects, which, imo, are the most intriguing and important parts of a person's chart.

Haven't read it in detail, so won't speak to the accuracy of the interpretation, but I'd run your chart at one of these sites:
astromatrix.org
cafeastrology.com

It's not that it doesn't make sense, I just think it's too much forer effect for my tastes

 

[á´…eparted]

Haven't read it in detail, so won't speak to the accuracy of the interpretation, but I'd run your chart at one of these sites:
astromatrix.org
cafeastrology.com

Do you not like astro.com? Maybe its cause I am used to it but I always found them the easiest to work with and their charts the most asthetically pleasing.

 

[011235813]

OMG, someone do mine.

 

[Zarathustra]

It's not that it doesn't make sense, I just think it's too much forer effect for my tastes

It is certainly prone to the forer effect.

But that accusation could (and would) be levied against it, even if it's true.

THAT is the (difficult) task that astrology challenges us to take up: are your critical thinking, interpretive, and reading skills well cultivated enough such that you can give your natal chart a truly open-minded reading, while not simply falling victim to the forer effect (because there's no way, while doing the reading, if one is genuinely open-minded while doing it, that one will know whether astrology is indeed [correspondentially] true or not).

Do you not like astro.com? Maybe its cause I am used to it but I always found them the easiest to work with and their charts the most asthetically pleasing.

Their free chart is very limited.

These two sites offer very good free charts.

I have bought charts from astro.com, astrology.com, and some others.

What I do not like about those I have bought from astro.com (Liz Greene's relationship profile, et al) is that they do not tell you what aspects or placements they are using to arrive at their interpretation, and that is annoying.

OMG, someone do mine.

I...

Oy vey...

 

[Nicodemus]

astromatrix.org

Just used this.

You are constantly in motion, but sometimes it is motion without meaning. Lacking self-discipline, you take daring and unnecessary risks when challenged. Your supporters regard you as courageous, but your enemies consider you 'pushy' and arrogant. However, you are not moved by either opinion, because you want most of all for people to recognize your superiority and give you the breathing room you need. You constantly have to see that people are in awe of your aggressive superiority, because inside you are not really that sure of yourself. The image you present hides a persistent inferiority complex. You probably win your arguments by making the most noise and wearing out your opponents with unceasing harassment. [...] A very physical person, you tend to brush aside any talk of compromise or concession as tactics fit only for the weak and spineless. It is almost impossible to have a simple, friendly talk with you; when you think you are losing control and your position is weakening, you become angry and may resort to violence.

Totally me...

The best thing about my birth chart, though, is how blatantly the different descriptions contradict each other. Clearly hoping to catch me one way or the other, it is somewhat impressive how seldom they do hit the nail.

 

[Zarathustra]

Totally me...

What aspect or placement was that?

The best thing about my birth chart, though, is how blatantly the different descriptions contradict each other.

Do you have not a single contradictory element in your being?

Are you not ever one way in certain situations, but another seemingly contradictory way in others?

Clearly hoping to catch me one way or the other, it is somewhat impressive how seldom they do hit the nail.

There is not really any hoping.

It's a computer.

It spits all the information out according to its formula.

The formula is indeed based on the positions of the astral bodies, signs, and houses, are the moment and location of your birth.

And the interpretations do actually fit according to the archetypes and underpinning logic of astrology.

Different interpretations (by different authors) may word things a bit differently, or accentuate certain elements of the archetypes more or less than others, but the point is to not merely go word by word, in an extremely literal fashion, through each aspect/position's interpretation, but to come to understand the archetypal principles towards which each interpretation is pointing.

The output of a computer, while phenomenal from an efficiency standpoint, is inherently mechanical, and its limitations must be understood. And one must take this into account when reading a computer-generated profile, if one ever hopes to give their chart a fair, open-minded reading.

 

[Amargith]

Tbh, I just used that site myself and...the results were..really not relatable. Ive had my star chart read before and...well, let's just say the two didn't match.

 

[Nicodemus]

What aspect or placement was that?

Ascendant Conjunct Mars? The second paragraph of the results.

Do you have not a single contradictory element in your being?

Are you not ever one way in certain situations, but another seemingly contradictory way in others?

1: The Sun sextile the Ascendant shows that it is easy for you to express yourself.
2: Neptune sextile the Ascendant shows that you have difficulty in expressing yourself and often give people the wrong impression.

To make that work, I think you have to be a believer.

There is not really any hoping.

It's a computer.

I guess the computer composed the descriptions itself, too.

It spits all the information out according to its formula.

The formula is indeed based on the positions of the astral bodies, signs, and houses, are the moment and location of your birth.

And the interpretations do actually fit according to the archetypes and underpinning logic of astrology.

Well, these are the very things that are in question when one critically looks at astrology. Except the moment and location of my birth. I am fairly certain of those.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Do you have not a single contradictory element in your being?

Are you not ever one way in certain situations, but another seemingly contradictory way in others?

If a profile is supposed to account for this by making contradictory statements about the same person, then it has the Forer effect written all over it.

There is not really any hoping.

It's a computer.

It spits all the information out according to its formula.

The formula is indeed based on the positions of the astral bodies, signs, and houses, are the moment and location of your birth.

And the interpretations do actually fit according to the archetypes and underpinning logic of astrology.

It is a computer, but it is scripted by people and applies concepts devised by people. Nicodemus may still be correct.

Different interpretations (by different authors) may word things a bit differently, or accentuate certain elements of the archetypes more or less than others, but the point is to not merely go word by word, in an extremely literal fashion, through each aspect/position's interpretation, but to come to understand the archetypal principles towards which each interpretation is pointing.

That sounds to me like "if you squint hard enough, it will look like you".

The output of a computer, while phenomenal from an efficiency standpoint, is inherently mechanical, and its limitations must be understood. And one must take this into account when reading a computer-generated profile, if one ever hopes to give their chart a fair, open-minded reading.

Actually, I would think that the way astrology is at least theoretically supposed to work, it would should be so deterministic that a computer would be quite suited for making sense of it and giving an accurate reading.

 

[Zarathustra]

If a profile is supposed to account for this by making contradictory statements about the same person, then it has the Forer effect written all over it.

That's fine.

I already addressed this just a few posts above to Prplchknz:

It is certainly prone to the forer effect.

But that accusation could (and would) be levied against it, even if it's true.

THAT is the (difficult) task that astrology challenges us to take up: are your critical thinking, interpretive, and reading skills well cultivated enough such that you can give your natal chart a truly open-minded reading, while not simply falling victim to the forer effect (because there's no way, while doing the reading, if one is genuinely open-minded while doing it, that one will know whether astrology is indeed [correspondentially] true or not).

It's difficult enough to respond to five to seven people asking questions at the same time.

Please try to mind answers that have already been offered that deal with the issue you're raising.

It is a computer, but it is scripted by people and applies concepts devised by people.

And the concepts and scripts are executed in a purely formulaic fashion.

Where were the planets, signs, and houses, at the time and location of your birth, and what are the interpretations of those locations and placements relative to one another.

It is very up front and honest about its methods, and there is nothing inherently deceitful about any of them.

You can be suspicious about them, but you can be suspicious about anything, if you want to, including about a good and honest person.

If you actually do the work, and look into astrology, while you will come to the conclusion that the execution of the methods could indeed lead to the Forer Effect while one reads their natal chart, you will also come to the conclusion that there is not necessarily anything inherently deceitful about the methods used.

The methods are the methods, and, frankly, they have a reasonable and understandable logic underpinning them.

Nicodemus may still be correct.

Yes, and my point still stands.

There is nothing inherently deceitful about any of the methods.

If you actually studied them, and knew how they worked, you would see this.

Can the product of the methods potentially lead to Forer Effect?

Absolutely.

But, once again, I already addressed that to Prplchknz (and to you above).

That sounds to me like "if you squint hard enough, it will look like you".

That's fine, and it's an understandable interpretation.

But what I said is also what's absolutely necessary (and reasonably necessary, if one actually studies this stuff, and comes to understand how the interpretations are created/discovered/intuited), if you want to interpret a chart as it's meant to be interpreted.

Just like with the Forer Effect question, just because you can have that position, and do so reasonably, does not necessarily make it correct.

That, as I said, is the challenge of astrology.

Suspending one's (dis)belief, and giving a truly open-minded reading.

Because one cannot know, while one is genuinely doing such a thing, whether astrology is indeed (correspondentially) true or not.

Actually, I would think that the way astrology is at least theoretically supposed to work, it would should be so deterministic that a computer would be quite suited for making sense of it and giving an accurate reading.

Well, that's cuz you don't really know how it's supposed to work.

There are difficulties that you can understand only if you actually have taken a deep and genuinely open dive into it at all.

If one has not given astrology a chance, to truly openly try to understand it on its own terms, one really isn't in a position, having not seen it from the inside, and thus come to understand how it actually might work, to make any such determination.

I could provide many lengthy, detailed, and accurate reasons why computers present issues when it comes to interpretations.

And the reason I can is because I have actually done the work, and done so in a genuinely open, curious, and considerate way.

(And there's still plenty of work to do; I could not imagine I'm even 40% of the way to truly being completely adept at it.)

 

[Zarathustra]

Nico, your reply will be coming next.

 

[Qre:us]

What are the differences between Western astrology and Eastern astrology? Is there one?

 

[Zarathustra]

What are the differences between Western astrology and Eastern astrology? Is there one?

First off, I should say, that I am not expert enough in astrological history and the various astrological traditions to make an authoritative statement on this matter, so understand that when you read what I'm about to say, that what I'm about to say is simply what I have gathered from what research I have done, and that what research I have done on this matter is, imo, far too little to be authoritative.

Second, simply calling it Eastern astrology vs Western astrology is a very flawed way of looking at it. China has its own astrological tradition, which, from my understanding, is very different from the others. Vedic astrology, from my understanding, tho, is actually very similar to "Western astrology" (which really should be looked at, I believe, as Hellenistic astrology, coming from the Greeks), as I believe the lines of transmission of the ideas were significantly increased by the conquests of Alexander the Great.

All that being said, some months ago I learned (to my surprise) that Vedic astrology actually supposedly comes from "Western astrology", or Hellenistic astrology. I had actually previously assumed it was the other way around, as, having many good Indian friends growing up, and having gone to college as well with some of them, it was certainly put into my consciousness that many things we take for granted as "Greek" actually had a largely Indian origin (myths, etc). Some recent research has made me now triple back, and, frankly, I am now uncertain whether this Greek -> Indian transmission is actually what occurred, but, nevertheless, from what I have seen, there seem to be many more similarities between Greek astrology and Indian astrology than between Chinese astrology and either one of them (I have a very poor understanding of Chinese astrology, tho, so, once again, take that with the appropriate grain of salt, as perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about).

Umm.. does that answer your question?

I could probably say more, like about how the concepts and archetypes are essentially the same, I believe, but, while I believe this is largely true (there are things that seem to be accentuated in Vedic astrology, that might not really be as emphasized, or even really prevalent at all, in Western astrology, but these appear to be more like minor cultural variants, whereas the overarching frameworks are more-or-less the same), once again, I'm not expert enough to be completely authoritative on the matter.

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh, and the primary origin of all of astrology, from what I have gathered, is Mesopotamia/Babylon.

I actually briefly glanced over this yesterday.

You could probably learn a lot just from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundane_astrology