Zarathustra's Astrology Thread, or, Where An INTJ (Foolishly) Defends Astrology

[Riva]

Zara what teachings of astrology did you learn from? Vedic or western?

Astrology goes hand in hand with previous births. The west may have issues here.

 

[chickpea]

how important do you (royal you) consider rising signs? are they equally important as the sun sign? more important?

also a theory I've had pretty much solely based on myself but haven't been able to find anything to back up- does the ruling planet if your sun sign have any special significance? (i.e. sun sign Aries rules mars, feel as though my placement of mars in cancer has a very strong influence on me.)

 

[violet_crown]

how important do you (royal you) consider rising signs? are they equally important as the sun sign? more important?

also a theory I've had pretty much solely based on myself but haven't been able to find anything to back up- does the ruling planet if your sun sign have any special significance? (i.e. sun sign Aries rules mars, feel as though my placement of mars in cancer has a very strong influence on me.)

These are good questions, and I hope Zara doesn't mind if I take a stab at answering them.

1. How important are rising signs?
   
   In Western astrology, there are three places that an astrologer is gonna look to get a baseline read on a chart: the ascendant (rising sign), the Sun sign, and the Moon sign. The Sun sign gives an understanding of the native's conscious self, while the Moon gives insight into the unconscious self and emotional nature, and together they create a shorthand for who the person is. The ascendant is a little bit different and can be understood in a couple of ways. The ascendant is a "mask" of sorts. It gives an indication of how the native wants to be perceived and how they present their public face. Most things in astrology work in dynamic pairs or opposites, and the rising sign is no different. Opposing the ascendant is the descending sign, which gives an indication of the traits that the individual exhibits, but may not be aware of. The descendant is also important in relationship astrology as it points to an area where the native feels they may be lacking something, and will sometimes seek those traits in their significant others.
   
   Anyways. The point about the ascendant is that if you consider the Sun to be the basic personality, then it's sort of an added flavor. My ascendant in Capricorn, for instance, makes me come across as a lot more focused and conservative than one would expect for someone with Sun in Gemini, and you have to get to know me to see the more Gemini traits. It's not that the ascendant persona is "fake", but it's more the lens through which the other energies in the chart will typically be filtered by the native. In terms of relative importance, however, I'd say Sun=Moon>Ascendant.
   
   
2. What is the significance of the Sun sign's ruling planet?
   
   This is another really good question. Despite the fact that an astrologer is going to look to the Sun-Moon-Ascendant combo as kind of a quick and dirty way to get a sense of a person, there's a lot more going on in a natal chart. Basically, as I was getting at earlier, a chart ought to be understood in terms of relationships. Not just the dynamic pairs, but also the planets relative positioning (angles), rulership, and their placement throughout the houses and signs of the chart. This business of positioning and placement dictates the power of a planet to influence not only the native, but the power it holds over the other planets in the chart.
   
   What does that mean? Well, one of my favorite analogies is to think of the planet as a Hollywood actor, the sign its placed in as its role in the film (as signs provide motivation and the fundamental interests of the planet), and the house as the kind of movie. The better these three things jive with one another, the more naturally the planet is able to express itself, and the more powerful it is in the chart. The thing that determines a planets "comfort" in a sign is its rulership of that sign. Going back to your example, Mars rules Aries, and is naturally "happiest" expressing those energies. On the other hand, Mars is in Fall in Cancer, which means that it's at its weakest there.
   
   The other implication of Mars being in Cancer is that its in a sign that technically belongs to another planet. In this case, the Moon, as it is the ruler of Cancer. When a planet is another planet's sign, then that planet actually "reports" to that ruling planet. That means that the placement of your Moon has a lot to say about how Mars expresses itself in addition to Mars' placement in sign and house. At the top of this chain of command is the planet (or occasionally planets) that rule your chart. This planet is the dominant energy in your chart, and can be found by way of a dispositor tree. So far I know already that part of the chain of command in your chart goes
   
   Moon-->Mars-->Sun
   
   Anyways, I've written a lot of words to say that your intuition about the importance of Mars in Cancer to your Sun in Aries is absolutely on point. Your particular Sun-Mars placement points to a sense of self that is independent and action oriented, but whose fundamental concerns center around asserting your emotional needs. This is probably due to the fact that your sense of self can be a bit hazy at times, and you may struggle with maintaining healthy boundaries as it is easier for you to identify the needs of others than your own. I would imagine that this combination would cause you to seek out relationships with a certain intensity, but be ambivalent about them once you found them just because you do value your independence so highly. Mars in fall and a Sun that's kind of low in the planetary pecking order would explain the kind of Piscean vibe that I've gotten from you in our interactions. I'd have to see the rest of your chart to say anything more pointed than that.

 

[chickpea]

[MENTION=7254]Wind-Up Rex[/MENTION]
ahhh you're awesome, thank you. very well put, especially the 2nd answer.

i can relate to your sun sign/ascendant dissonance too. i'm libra rising which is opposite my sun sign and I feel that people who don't know me well think I'm much kinder and more diplomatic than I am deep down. that's probably working in my favor though

feel free to look at my chart if you have the time. I appreciated your insight

 

[violet_crown]

I appreciated your insight

I appreciate it! I'm kind of a spazz when it comes to subjects that interest me, so I kind of go into info overload mode.

I'll PM you re: your chart.

 

[Zarathustra]

3/3

This time it was Jennifer Lopez.

If this is entirely random, there'd be a 1/1728 chance I got all three right.

 

[Mole]

It was through astrology, (admittedly not an in-depth analysis of it), that I came to MBTI and Jung.

Astrology is the ur-religion: it forms the basis of all religions. But astronomy has shown astrology to have no truth value, and so we can infer that all religions have no truth value.

Why, astrology can even bring us to the Führer lover and misogynist, Jung, and bring us to a fake personality test called mbti.

 

[Zarathustra]

But astronomy has shown astrology to have no truth value, and so we can infer that all religions have no truth value.

This is patently false.

Why, astrology can even bring us to the Führer lover and misogynist, Jung, and bring us to a fake personality test called mbti.

...and, as such, the fact that you would try to pass off such horse shit as truth calls into question everything else you try to push on this forum.

 

[Riva]

Astrology is the ur-religion: it forms the basis of all religions. But astronomy has shown astrology to have no truth value, and so we can infer that all religions have no truth value.

It does?

 

[Coriolis]

Reminds me of "The gateway to the invisible must be visible." I'm open to the possibility of something transcending mechanistic causal principles, but there has to be logical proof that it does...a loophole or something. Does that make sense / is that reasonable?

Because it sounds like the writer of this essay is implying that when a person sees the universe as a being with spiritual capacity, they will just intuitively know that astrology is legitimate. Or have I misunderstood?

Seems reasonable to me. I would like more information about this train of thought as well.

 

[Mole]

It does?

Go to Youtube and you will find an excellent video showing that astrology is our ur-religion.

And don't say I don't do anything for you, for I have looked up the very video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78

and Part 2 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frwlyx2u8JE

and Part 3 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovFFZ4iEFCo

So astrology is very important because it is the origin of religion.

We have the origin of species, the origin of the universe and now the origin of religion.

 

[Mole]

calls into question everything else you try to push on this forum.

I want you to read everything I post on Central, Zarathustra, and question every word.

 

[greenfairy]

You have Saturn in the first house conjunct the Ascendant. That's a difficult position. I have Saturn in the seventh.

 

[Zarathustra]

There are definitely more difficult aspects in my natal chart.

Saturn in I

He can be self-conscious in new situations, especially when young. His manner is somewhat cautious and guarded. First reactions to new ideas or plans are cautious and somewhat negative, but these are only first reactions. Can be methodical, patient, somewhat distrustful, polite. He speaks little at first and does not waste energy unnecessarily. He has a good memory and sense of organization, likes to do things well. He is never slapdash and has a sense of responsibility.

116 Conjunction Saturn - Ascendant

He is serious, sober, thoughtful, pays attention to detail. He likes to be with older people.

 

[Zarathustra]

Although, this corollary, which you did not (explicitly) mention, is one challenging part:

-32 Square Saturn - Midheaven

He must struggle a lot and work hard to achieve his aims. Although confronted by discouraging circumstances, he knows how to set off again and continue the fight.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I don't chart the stars; I just blow into the bubble-branes!

 

[keto chameleon]

personally,I have found astrology more useful than any enneagram or mbti results.

 

[Nicodemus]

personally,I have found astrology more useful than any enneagram or mbti results.

Do you sell horoscopes?

 

[keto chameleon]

Do you sell horoscopes?

nope.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think astrology is probably bullshit, but part of me wonders if something like being born in a certain part of the year might have an effect on your personality.

I mean, think about how different the first experiences of someone born in the winter might be versus someone born in the summer. It's possible that it might have some kind of effect.

Same store? The reason may be a business trick. Libras are produced around Christmas and New Year, so they may be among the most common zodiac signs.

I can't remember how squicked out I was when I realized my parents must have conceived me on my dad's January 2nd birthday, or at least that time of year.

My parents had sex. EEEWWWWWW.