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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Ok, I have decided what I am going to do.

    This thread has close to largely served its purpose.

    We're going to have to switch to something I've been considering.



    Which site did you use?

    And what two didn't match?

    You had your natal chart read in person by an astrologer?

    Did you find it to be accurate, but not the one by whichever site you used?

    Would need to know some details before I can have an idea as to what's gone on.

    I'd also be willing to go over your chart, along with Senza's, as examples of how to do a natal reading.
    Fantastic. I'd love to learn how to read charts/figure out which aspects are most important, etc.

    For me, it's not that my chart is incorrect per se, it's just the chart of a vigorously extroverted and expansive and philosophical person (Jupiter is a big guy in mine, I think?) and it's a little ... overstated.

  2. #242
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    Their free chart is very limited.

    These two sites offer very good free charts.

    I have bought charts from astro.com, astrology.com, and some others.

    What I do not like about those I have bought from astro.com (Liz Greene's relationship profile, et al) is that they do not tell you what aspects or placements they are using to arrive at their interpretation, and that is annoying.
    Really? I find you can do a ton with their charts. There's many different models, and that alone seems pretty good to me. The one thing that annoys me is they insist on using chiron and I personally never use it much.

    I never buy charts. I only did once and it was mostly for experimental reasons that I explained in my previous post. The one I got is by Liz Greene. I agree the not telling of what aspects they are using to explain things quite annoyed me. I know enough that for most of things I could figure out what aspect(s) and stuff they were basing it off of, but others I'm not able to figure out what they're refrencing. For someone who is learning, yeah it kind of defeats the purposes, but I still found the descriptions to be valuable (or as valuable as they could be for what I bought it for at the time). The generic free interpretations on astro.com leave a lot to be desired, but I stopped using those from the start. I just feel the variety of charts they offer, and the options you can do with them to be rather extensive.

    One chart tool that I find to be useful (and cool) is the chart delineation (pullen/astrolog, it also comes with a TON of information). In the middle, it breaks down the "effect" of each placement based on aspect orb, importance, depositer, chart rulers, house, sign, planet, etc. It takes everything into account.

    This is mine to give you an idea what it can be like if you haven't used it:

    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  3. #243
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    I read through my astromatrix chart that was fascinating, I had no idea astrology was so complicated; it certainly puts newspaper horoscopes to shame. I particularly liked this part:

    The Sun square the Ascendant indicates that when you express yourself you unknowingly cause others to react negatively. You tend to get off on the wrong foot because you have trouble convincing people that you are sincere and honest. You come on a bit strong, which just doesn't set quite right with people, and they resent you for it. All the endearments you use never quite offset your suspected lack of sincerity.
    It aptly describes my poor online interaction skills.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  4. #244
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    ...so this is is what other must feel when I start blabbing on about Typology....

  5. #245
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    ...so this is is what other must feel when I start blabbing on about Typology....
    lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    First off, I should say, that I am not expert enough in astrological history and the various astrological traditions to make an authoritative statement on this matter, so understand that when you read what I'm about to say, that what I'm about to say is simply what I have gathered from what research I have done, and that what research I have done on this matter is, imo, far too little to be authoritative.

    Second, simply calling it Eastern astrology vs Western astrology is a very flawed way of looking at it. China has its own astrological tradition, which, from my understanding, is very different from the others.
    I should have specified. I meant Vedic astrology.

    Vedic astrology, from my understanding, tho, is actually very similar to "Western astrology" (which really should be looked at, I believe, as Hellenistic astrology, coming from the Greeks), as I believe the lines of transmission of the ideas were significantly increased by the conquests of Alexander the Great.

    All that being said, some months ago I learned (to my surprise) that Vedic astrology actually supposedly comes from "Western astrology", or Hellenistic astrology. I had actually previously assumed it was the other way around, as, having many good Indian friends growing up, and having gone to college as well with some of them, it was certainly put into my consciousness that many things we take for granted as "Greek" actually had a largely Indian origin (myths, etc). Some recent research has made me now triple back, and, frankly, I am now uncertain whether this Greek -> Indian transmission is actually what occurred, but, nevertheless, from what I have seen, there seem to be many more similarities between Greek astrology and Indian astrology than between Chinese astrology and either one of them (I have a very poor understanding of Chinese astrology, tho, so, once again, take that with the appropriate grain of salt, as perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about).

    Umm.. does that answer your question?

    I could probably say more, like about how the concepts and archetypes are essentially the same, I believe, but, while I believe this is largely true (there are things that seem to be accentuated in Vedic astrology, that might not really be as emphasized, or even really prevalent at all, in Western astrology, but these appear to be more like minor cultural variants, whereas the overarching frameworks are more-or-less the same), once again, I'm not expert enough to be completely authoritative on the matter.
    I guess my question, at its most basic, was, would one get the same results if they applied a Vedic Astrology reading to their chart versus a "Western astrology" one? Or, would there be significant differences. And if there are significant differences, what, in your expertise, results in those differences? Different starting points?

    It's the subjectivity of astrology that's an issue for me. 1+1 to derive at 2 is universal. As with astronomy.

    Second issue is, the justification of causation. That planetary movements causes someone born minutes within each other, to have different life courses. I have some familiarity with Vedic astrology, but not enough to really comment on it with authority. But, the causation explanation, has never been cleared up.

    Was wondering if "Western" astrology differed in how it assumed causation.

    Anyway, thanks for the history of the evolution of astrology. Interesting, though not surprising, that it's tied to the Babylonians.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I guess my question, at its most basic, was, would one get the same results if they applied a Vedic Astrology reading to their chart versus a "Western astrology" one? Or, would there be significant differences. And if there are significant differences, what, in your expertise, results in those differences? Different starting points?
    I'd compare it to something like Socionics vs MBTI.

    Same source material, but somewhat different interpretations.

    I'm not sure, tho, exactly *how* different the interpretations would be, tho.

    And, even if they were, I mean... two MBTI theorists won't necessarily give you the exact same description of each of the 16 types.

    It's the subjectivity of astrology that's an issue for me. 1+1 to derive at 2 is universal. As with astronomy.
    Yeah, it's trying to do something far more complicated than arithmetic or just the movement of the planets.

    Although the movements of the planets is a part of it.

    Second issue is, the justification of causation. That planetary movements causes someone born minutes within each other, to have different life courses. I have some familiarity with Vedic astrology, but not enough to really comment on it with authority. But, the causation explanation, has never been cleared up.
    It's not actually causal (at least not according to the modern Western variety in which I am interested).

    It's synchronistic.

    You should really watch the video I posted above.

    The dude is extremely smart, extremely well-educated, and extremely well-spoken.

    He uses an analogy about how a clock doesn't cause time to pass, it merely chronicles it.

    Was wondering if "Western" astrology differed in how it assumed causation.
    There are multiple schools of thought on this, both now and throughout history, both *within* Western astrology, and outside it.

    The most defensible explanation, imo, is expounded in the video I posted.

    Anyway, thanks for the history of the evolution of astrology.
    No problem

    Interesting, though not surprising, that it's tied to the Babylonians.
    It was the cradle of civilization.

  7. #247
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I have an issue with finding out when I was born that renders more in-depth astrology useless for me, since no one in my family can give me a clear time and my birth certificate does not mention a time either.

    And here in the UK as far as I know we no longer record the exact time on our birth certificates after around 1980, essentially it's up to human memory, which is shaky at best, obfuscating at worst.

    Perhaps useless was a pre-emptive word, but this seems to rely strongly on exact time of birth. The other issue is that I was born at home, so there were no other witnesses other than mum and dad.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  8. #248
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    so many negative aspects

  9. #249
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    so many negative aspects
    It's okay, it's only astrology.


  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I have an issue with finding out when I was born that renders more in-depth astrology useless for me, since no one in my family can give me a clear time and my birth certificate does not mention a time either.

    And here in the UK as far as I know we no longer record the exact time on our birth certificates after around 1980, essentially it's up to human memory, which is shaky at best, obfuscating at worst.

    Perhaps useless was a pre-emptive word, but this seems to rely strongly on exact time of birth. The other issue is that I was born at home, so there were no other witnesses other than mum and dad.
    There's a lot that won't necessarily change...

    The houses are completely dependent on birth time, and they do matter...

    But much of the rest, say 80-90%, likely won't change.

    There could be some stuff that changes (aspects that do or don't manifest, related to your ascendant, midheaven, north node, moon, mercury, Venus, and mars... fuck, that's actually a lot... but nothing necessarily changes for any of those... it just could...)

    There are actually workarounds by which you could try to figure out what time your "soul birth" was...

    You'd figure out which rising sign (ascendant) makes most sense for you...

    All the rest of the houses would sorta flow from there...

    It wouldn't be perfect, cuz you wouldn't know how far into your ascendant sign you were when you were born...

    And thus, depending on where you assume, certain planets might fall into the house before or after the one they're supposed to...

    But then you could perform the same technique to figure out which house each planet should be in...

    It's fitting the data to the results, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, and at least it'd give you something to go on

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