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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Zarathustra defends his Ni.
    Says the faithful materialist.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    One time, another INTJ I know, also with a lot of interest in astrology, told me my very detailed astrological reading. I was so pissed off that I , well, got pretty pissed off, as it was distrubingly accurate.
    Yeah, it can be like that.

    There's some stuff in mine that is rather bothersome.

    I would prefer for these things not to be true, but all signs point to them being true.

    Btw, Oro, I have not mentioned yet, but your experiment with your colleagues intrigued me.

    I definitely want to do something similar with my group of friends (~8-10 people) who have known each other for 20-25 years.

    I've done it with just the quick descriptions (sun sign, rising sign, moon sign) of a number of my friends, and they're so obvious it's ridiculous.
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 11-21-2011 at 10:23 PM.

  3. #103
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    If it's so accurate, why aren't there good correlational studies out there?

    Also, you should do my reading thing; I'm curious.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    If it's so accurate, why aren't there good correlational studies out there?
    Such studies would be impossible.

    I covered this with Sim in the other thread.

    Unfortunately, it was mangled by CzeCze.

  5. #105
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    There are some "star twins" studies that supposedly falsify it, but they are so easy to explain away, they are more-or-less irrelevant.

    One study I have actually heard of, by a mathematician, showed that there was a statistically significantly higher presence of Mars in the natal charts of the world's best athletes, but I don't know the details of the study well enough to give it enough credence.

    Not that I would be closed off to an intelligently-designed study on the matter, but I think the possibility of one is highly unlikely, and largely antithetical to the entire purpose of astrology.
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 11-21-2011 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #106
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I don't understand why they would be impossible. Seems relatively easy actually.

  7. #107
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    That's cuz you don't understand astrology.

  8. #108
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That's cuz you don't understand astrology.
    Explain to me why you couldn't do a survey based study -- people read a bunch of profiles and pick the one they think matches them. See if they have a better than chance probability of guessing their own.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Explain to me why you couldn't do a survey based study -- people read a bunch of profiles and pick the one they think matches them. See if they have a better than chance probability of guessing their own.
    Interesting idea, actually.

    Somewhat similar to the one I've thought of.

    I still suspect there'd be a lot of problems, though.

    I have not let this cat out of the bag yet, but, what I posted for Saturned, that's only part of a natal profile.

    I've decided to separate a natal profile into three parts (aspects, signs, and houses), and post just one at a time.

    A full natal profile is really long, and to get someone to read through many of them, and actually do a good job, is a little bit specious.

    You could break it down into smaller pieces (like I said: sun, moon, and rising signs only), and see what happens.

    If you were gunna try to do this, that would make it the most manageable way.

    It would still not be perfect, but you could see what happens.

    I suppose if it's better than chance, that means something.

    *

    My idea is similar, but smaller.

    I just want to get my group of friends, most of whom have known each other for most of our lives, and print out the same three things (none of which were included in the stuff I posted for Saturned), and see if we can figure out amongst ourselves which one belongs to whom. Imagine if 8-10 people working together were able to actually assign each one correctly to each individual.

    That would be meaningful in my opinion.

    *

    One other issue I haven't mentioned yet with your construction, that wouldn't be as much of a problem with my group one, is that yours would depend, to an extent, on each individual having an accurate understanding of themselves, which, well, often times tends not to be the case. This would certainly seem to detract from the "scientific" nature of the study.

    Also, I think that one needs to understand how to read an astrological chart to begin with, in order to do a good job, so the people would have to be trained in that regard, but, at the same time, would have to not already know what their chart is like -- cuz someone who's studied astrology is already gunna know how to identify on a piece of paper which one has their actual sun, moon, and rising signs (among other things, possibly), and you don't want this to skew the results to the positive. There's sort of an inherent conflict there, cuz you want the people to know how to read an astrological chart, but, you might say, one doesn't know how to read an astrological chart until one has actually had the experience of reading their own astrological chart. It's an odd rub.

    (I'd never thought of this experiment before, so I'm kinda just coming up with issues as I go.)

    Still, I think you present an interesting idea.

  10. #110
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    My idea is similar, but smaller.

    I just want to get my group of friends, most of whom have known each other for most of our lives, and print out the same three things (none of which were included in the stuff I posted for Saturned), and see if we can figure out amongst ourselves which one belongs to whom. Imagine if 8-10 people working together were able to actually assign each one correctly to each individual.

    That would be meaningful in my opinion.
    It might be meaningful, but it wouldn't be statistically valid. Also, you should have each person guess the profiles of everyone else without referring to each other. Then you have a sample size of 8-10 instead of 1.

    One other issue I haven't mentioned yet with your construction, that wouldn't be as much of a problem with my group one, is that yours would depend, to an extent, on each individual having an accurate understanding of themselves, which, well, often times tends not to be the case. This would certainly seem to detract from the "scientific" nature of the study.
    It's definitely true that people don't have entirely accurate understandings of themselves. We're already in a bit of a hand-wavey framework when we're talking about personality theories...

    Luckily, it doesn't matter here as long as we assume that people have a better than chance understanding of themselves. The study would be correlational anyway. (It would make the correlation less pronounced, but it couldn't reduce it to chance.)

    Also, I think that one needs to understand how to read an astrological chart to begin with, in order to do a good job, so the people would have to be trained in that regard, but, at the same time, would have to not already know what their chart is like -- cuz someone who's studied astrology is already gunna know how to identify on a piece of paper which one has their actual sun, moon, and rising signs (among other things, possibly), and you don't want this to skew the results to the positive. There's sort of an inherent conflict there, cuz you want the people to know how to read an astrological chart, but, you might say, one doesn't know how to read an astrological chart until one has actually had the experience of reading their own astrological chart. It's an odd rub.
    Is there really no way to format the chart so it's written out in paragraph form?

    Anyway, I didn't think too seriously about the scientific test thing and I came up with one... I'm sure many people out there have come up with way better tests than that. So why haven't we seen this kind of data yet? I'm gonna bet it's because people can't do better than chance.

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