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  1. #21
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    What's the point of believing something that can't be formulated? What exactly are you believing then?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    What's the point of believing something that can't be formulated? What exactly are you believing then?
    I don't think it's impossible to formulate. It's formulated in the Bible. And one can formulate it in Biblical terms.

    Attempts to formulate it generally fail, because they are based on mere opinion, desire, prejudice etc., or on human logic and observation, which is not always in accord with fundamental reality.

  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    I don't think it's impossible to formulate. It's formulated in the Bible. And one can formulate it in Biblical terms.

    Attempts to formulate it generally fail, because they are based on mere opinion, desire, prejudice etc., or on human logic and observation, which is not always in accord with fundamental reality.
    "Generally" fail or "always" fail? Just checking. You say it's not impossible, but why? Is that just a belief too?

  4. #24
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    What's the point of believing something that can't be formulated? What exactly are you believing then?
    I don't really know that there's a point. It's not a random belief, It's more of a lifelong investigation. I guess you can say that I believe certain things that are characteristic of the Truth, that are possibly just an expression of my interest in the Truth, but isn't necessarily the Truth itself. Meh, I'm not sure I can do better than that. The important thing here, folks, is that I'm off of religion... and on to Mysticism

  5. #25
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    "Generally" fail or "always" fail? Just checking. You say it's not impossible, but why? Is that just a belief too?
    They generally fail, and sometimes succeed.

    They succeed when they are formulated in Biblical terms, but fail when they are not.

    This is because the Bible is Truth with a capital T--the revealed Word of God. Everything else is mere conjecture.
    Last edited by Spurgeon; 11-07-2011 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Unfortunate typo. Meant to say"Everything else...."

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Interesting. So the Truth is already revealed? Does knowing this Truth also encourage you to never think or explore then? Since you already know where the Truth is, then there's no point dwelling on what the truth is, right? Kind of like it'd be a waste of time to figure out how to make spaghetti if you were given the ultimate spaghetti recipe. Must be nice.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Interesting. So the Truth is already revealed? Does knowing this Truth also encourage you to never think or explore then? Since you already know where the Truth is, then there's no point dwelling on what the truth is, right? Kind of like it'd be a waste of time to figure out how to make spaghetti if you were given the ultimate spaghetti recipe. Must be nice.
    1. Yes the truth is revealed--in the Bible.
    2. Knowing that the truth is in the Bible encourages one to think about and explore the truth contained within it.
    3. If one is interested in the truth then one considers the truth worth dwelling on.
    4. If one wants to actually produce the ultimate spaghetti, then one would not be satisfied with simply having the recipe.

  8. #28
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    3. If one is interested in the truth then one considers the truth worth dwelling on.
    Why is that? Ironically, I'm actually interested in dwelling on your statements, because I don't know what to think yet. I don't know what the truth is about you, so I explore. You're an unknown. Maybe just another waste of time, but who knows. Not me. That's why I'm here.

    To you, whatever your dwelling on is already revealed. How does one dwell on something that is already figured out, that isn't a mystery? And if you've gotten that far, why not just declare yourself God? What is it that's stopping you? Whatever this God-mind is, it seems pretty taken with you or has somehow possessed you. I say you should stop screwing around like you're another mortal and start dispensing the Truth already. Don't be selfish, dwelling by yourself with it.

  9. #29
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    Revealed Truth and the Enlightenment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    Yes the truth is revealed--in the Bible.
    The Bible says the Exodus occured, yet Israeli archeologists have found the Exodus didn't occur.

    And the Book of Mormon is a history of North and Central America, yet American archeologists, including one Mormon archeologist, have found the history in the Book of Mormon didn't occur.

    So Revealed Truth, or Truth with a capital T, is the kind of truth we are having when we are not having any truth.

    Fortunately we are not dependent on Revealed Truth, or Truth with a capital T, anymore, for we have found a way of discovering the truth with empirical evidence and reason.

    And it is religion that has given us Revealed Truth, or Truth with a capital T, and it was the Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th Centuries in the West, that gave us evidence and reason.

  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I've got it. I think the Truth is that we are all a mistake. We should have just been given the Truth, and served no other purpose than knowing it. We could be all be lined up like little husks, precooked Chicken McNuggets, happily dwelling on Truth, and the universe would have been better off.

    No?

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