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What is Wisdom?

Spurgeon

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I see, circular reasoning is not susceptible to things that happened in the real world.

F. C. Burkitt thinks that "most English readers of the New Testament have been too long content with the rough and ready Harmony of the Four Gospels that they unconsciously construct. This kind of 'Harmony' is not a very convincing picture when looked into, if only because it almost always conflicts with inconvenient statements of the Gospels themselves, statements that have been omitted from the 'Harmony,' not on any reasoned theory, but simply from inadvertence or the difficulty of fitting them in."

I don't see how that's relevant to whether the Gospel was meant for the Jews alone or for the whole world.

Even if Matthew 28:19 were omitted, Christ's command to preach to all nations is clearly stated in Mark 16:15. :

And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation."

And it is further supported by Acts 1:6-8. :

So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

You said:
Jesus wants his followers to go only to other Jews. You are one of his followers, but not all of us reading your posts are Jews.
and
It would also be very un-Jewish of Jesus to instruct his followers to proclaim his religious ideas to anyone but his fellow Jews.

Can you defend these statements, in light of the texts I quoted?
 

Zangetshumody

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And all this religious bickering has... what to do with wisdom, exactly?

Many of choose not to believe in God in the Christian sense of the word. I guess that means none of us are wise then.

Are you called Words of Ivory because everything you say, like an elephant's tusk would, pierces the reader?
 

Nicodemus

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I don't see how that's relevant to whether the Gospel was meant for the Jews alone or for the whole world.
The first part states why your arguments can never be more than baseless claims. The second part tells you that there is no 'the gospel'.

Can you defend these statements, in light of the texts I quoted?
Yes. The first is evidenced by Matthew 10:5; the second by thousands of years of Jewish tradition (and probably by things written in the Tanakh).
 

Words of Ivory

facettes de la petite mor
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You don't have to listen to me. Listen to the words of Christ Himself:
Some of us don't care about the words written in an old book.

Some of us would consider that to be the wise decision.

But in reality its not. The wise decision is to simply accept the different beliefs of others, whether they contradict yours or not, instead blindly following doctrine as "truth" when it is simply "guidance".

Are you called Words of Ivory because everything you say, like an elephant's tusk would, pierces the reader?
I can't tell if you're complimenting me for my words or being sarcastic. o_O
 

Spurgeon

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Yes. The first is evidenced by Matthew 10:5; the second by thousands of years of Jewish tradition (and probably by things written in the Tanakh).


At one point in the narrative, Christ instructs his disciples not to go to the Gentiles.

Then, later in the narrative, he instructs them to go to all the nations.

The latter does not contradict the former. It's simply a new command.

(Let me rephrase that...)

The latter supersedes the former. It is a new command.

If you don't understand that, I'm not sure what else to say.
 

Nicodemus

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At one point in the narrative, Christ instructs his disciples not to go to the Gentiles.

Then, later in the narrative, he instructs them to go to all the nations.
We were omitting Matthew 28:19. So the other command is from another text describing events invented by another unknown person.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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That's only the tip of the iceberg. But, clearly, the Gospel was intended to be preached to the entire world.
Not necessarily, and it doesn't matter anyway. The Bahai idea of progressive revelation has always made much more sense, namely that God has sent a special messenger to each time and culture, to reveal his truth in an appropriate way, like successive editions of a textbook. Much attributed to Jesus is indeed wise, but the idea that Jesus himself was unique is simply foolish. The closest we can come to Jesus' actual words is probably the Sayings Gospel Q. If people derive inspiration and guidance from these for living a more fulfilling and productive life, they need no more proof of historical accuracy than Aesop's Fables.
 

Coriolis

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I just meant right and wrong very broadly to mean essentially decision making which causes a person to produce an action or not to act at all. It's not really about judging actions as it's purpose is about understanding where and why they deviate by understanding the conclusions an individual reached.
Your meaning here escapes me. Are you equating right and wrong with "works" and "doesn't work"? Are you saying it is best to judge actions by their outcomes? Understanding where and why they [actions, presumably] deviate from what??

I don't know if you're thinking about this in terms of morality, but I didn't mean to include that (yet?), since the concept of morality is much more abstract to me and seems to build upon all of philosophy.

Do you have a problem with the idea of a subjective decision-making between different people? I would be interested to here how you resolve that idea into understanding people and reality if you do.
I was not thinking in terms of morality, but I had the impression you were. I think more in terms of effectiveness, keeping in mind that one has many goals at one time, and must constantly balance and prioritize them. Nine times out of ten, this method leads to the same outcome as more conventional morality might. The tenth time either multiple outcomes are equivalent, or perhaps I haven't run into these situations (accounts for the fact that I may not be able to account for every eventuality).

I think the subjectivity comes largely in what goals people have, what is important to them. Since values are one of the inputs to the decision making process, it will necessarily have a subjective component. Reaching those goals, however, is a much more objective process. Different values and motivations may lead different people, say, to decide to reduce their personal debt, but the same basic financial principles apply.
 

Blank

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The wise decision is to simply accept the different beliefs of others, whether they contradict yours or not, instead blindly following doctrine as "truth" when it is simply "guidance".

I think there are many people who would disagree and believe that accepting Nazism would not be such a good thing.
 

Words of Ivory

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I think there are many people who would disagree and believe that accepting Nazism would not be such a good thing.
Things within reason, obviously.

If it was something directly or intentionally hurting others, it won't really be particularly wise, now would it?
 
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Wisdom...
I have often considered the introverted perceiving functions (Ni & Si) the elements of wisdom. Wisdom should be oriented within yourself, and judgement is not wisdom. Wisdom is perceptively conceiving the works of your mind, all from the internal state. Judgement is derived after appropiate wisdom, directed by perception in this case. Wisdom is seeing the guidance of thoughts, or whatever. Wise characters are often xSxJs (with experience) or xNxJs. Of course, wisdom is kind of general and various. :dry:
 
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