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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I really do think that any meaning of 'evil' has the characteristic of 'otherness'. Of something you can't identify with, you can't believe a human could do. It's a dehumnizing term, technically.
    Well, I do think it is dangerous if evil is objectified/projected and "othered", so it only becomes a characteristic of "them", it leads to a variety of consequences ranging from silliness and myopic perspectives to outright wicked ideologies, in-groups and persecuted out-groups. One of the characters of some varieties of Humanism I respect is the idea that they insist "nothing human should be foreign to them", so even human evil shouldnt be foreign altogether.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think asking for definitions, implicitly accepting relativism and subjectivity is just the same as endorsing the evil is projection theory without wishing to accept the evil is objective/external theory.

  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    Evil is anything that opposes God.

    Interestingly, God permits evil to exist, which seems like a contradiction but is not, if you know that God always uses evil for good.

    But that's getting into some deep theological waters which may be beyond the scope of this thread.
    That still doesn't answer anything. You or I don't know the mind of God in order to draw the lines and know what God really permits. You might be right, but then.. where do you go from there? Who are you? And who is anyone else? All you're saying is God knows. Great. Yet anytime anyone stood up and said they said actually knew how to judge every issue just as well, it ended in tragedy and diaster.

    And before you say the Bible is a reliable word of God, and if we just stay firm in it's truth, we'll know true good and evil, then why does it's own definitions of evil change over time like in any other cultures? And I beg you to not play stupid, please. Like it doesn't happen, like I need to inundate you with a tidalwave of contradictory verses to prove my point. That ship has sailed, probably a zillion times. One minute love is the answer, the next war; one minute suicide is wrong, the next it's ok if you kill yourself in order to take down some dirty Phillistines; one minute prostitution is wrong, the next they're heroes; one minute slaves are ok, the next you must liberate the poor slaves; one minute you must follow a strict diet, the next everything is good in the eyes of God; and so on.

  4. #24
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    Evil exists only in the mind.
    Minds exist.
    A minds existence is real.
    A minds existence is absolute.
    A minds existence is objective.
    Therefore; real, absolute and objective evil exists.

    or something like that.

  5. #25
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, I do think it is dangerous if evil is objectified/projected and "othered", so it only becomes a characteristic of "them", it leads to a variety of consequences ranging from silliness and myopic perspectives to outright wicked ideologies, in-groups and persecuted out-groups. One of the characters of some varieties of Humanism I respect is the idea that they insist "nothing human should be foreign to them", so even human evil shouldnt be foreign altogether.
    Yeah, I can relate to this. Yeah, once you brand something as objectively evil.. it doesn't matter how or why it exists, all that is left to do is to destroy it, because it implies that there is nothing left to understand. I'm not going to say that there isn't something out there that isn't actually the very embodiment of evil.. there are a lot of things out there.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The whole thread hinges on the undefinedness of the term, which, though certainly fuzzy, has some core idea to it that most people share. Perhaps we agree more on what 'happiness' means than on what 'evil' is, but it is enough to work with - especially considering the importance of the work.
    "most" being the key term there. Many will not share it, and many will hold contradictory definitions to one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    However, your initial fear was that "some people define it as being subjective, some as being objective, some as relative". That, at least, should be prevented by reading the opening post.
    That was effectively my answer to OP question. The objective definitions make the answer "yes", the subjective or relative definitions "no", and various other more confusing options for the stranger definitions. Pick a specific definition and I could answer the question more precisely.

    It's an important point for these discussions, otherwise they are just people describing their own definitions of evil, and explaining why other people's definitions don't fit their own (sometimes saying that makes them wrong). No one's any more correct than each other, as it's a purely semantic difference.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    That still doesn't answer anything. You or I don't know the mind of God in order to draw the lines and know what God really permits. You might be right, but then.. where do you go from there? Who are you? And who is anyone else? All you're saying is God knows. Great. Yet anytime anyone stood up and said they said actually knew how to judge every issue just as well, it ended in tragedy and diaster.

    And before you say the Bible is a reliable word of God, and if we just stay firm in it's truth, we'll know true good and evil, then why does it's own definitions of evil change over time like in any other cultures? And I beg you to not play stupid, please. Like it doesn't happen, like I need to inundate you with a tidalwave of contradictory verses to prove my point. That ship has sailed, probably a zillion times. One minute love is the answer, the next war; one minute suicide is wrong, the next it's ok if you kill yourself in order to take down some dirty Phillistines; one minute prostitution is wrong, the next they're heroes; one minute slaves are ok, the next you must liberate the poor slaves; one minute you must follow a strict diet, the next everything is good in the eyes of God; and so on.
    You are imagining contradictions where there are none.

    The Bible is not an ordinary book. Understanding it requires wisdom and knowlege which comes directly from God.

    1 Corinthians 2:14-- "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and whe is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

    The good news is that God gives wisdom and knowledge in abundance to those who seek it from him. This, of course, requires humble submission to him. it requires repentance and faith.

    The question is, is it worth humbling ones self in order to understand? Or does one prefer to ignorance of the truth in order to maintain their pride?

    To tie this back to the thread....

    Yes, there is objective Good and there is objective Evil. And there is no such thing as Neutral.

    Only God is good, and if one is not God then one is evil. Therefore, all are called to repent and believe in Jesus Christ or they will experience the full wrath of God on Judgement Day.

    God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, but actually rejoices when a sinner repents.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tiger Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurgeon View Post
    You are imagining contradictions where there are none.

    The Bible is not an ordinary book. Understanding it requires wisdom and knowlege which comes directly from God.

    1 Corinthians 2:14-- "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and whe is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

    The good news is that God gives wisdom and knowledge in abundance to those who seek it from him. This, of course, requires humble submission to him. it requires repentance and faith.

    The question is, is it worth humbling ones self in order to understand? Or does one prefer to ignorance of the truth in order to maintain their pride?

    To tie this back to the thread....

    Yes, there is objective Good and there is objective Evil. And there is no such thing as Neutral.

    Only God is good, and if one is not God then one is evil. Therefore, all are called to repent and believe in Jesus Christ or they will experience the full wrath of God on Judgement Day.

    God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, but actually rejoices when a sinner repents.
    Thank you for posting this.
    INTJ 5w4 sx/sp 584 ILI-Ni

  9. #29
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Great, another pat answer. You're almost like a pez dispenser or something. Remind me when we can actually discuss something.

  10. #30
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Good and evil don't exist. Sociopathy does exist.

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