User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 81

  1. #11
    Senior Member Tiger Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    584 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,082

    Default

    I like quirky (as long as it is logical).
    INTJ 5w4 sx/sp 584 ILI-Ni

  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I suppose it depends on how you define evil.
    Pretty much.

    It's one of those terms where there's a lot of meanings, so it needs to be openly-defined for coherent discussion to take place. Otherwise some people define it as being subjective, some as being objective, some as relative, yet many will act like they are talking about the same thing, because the label is the same.

    So yeah, some definitions of evil are objective and some are subjective or relative.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Pretty much.

    It's one of those terms where there's a lot of meanings, so it needs to be openly-defined for coherent discussion to take place. Otherwise some people define it as being subjective, some as being objective, some as relative and yet act like they are talking about the same thing.

    So yeah, some definitions of evil are objective and some are subjective or relative.
    Lark's question was quite clear about that, though: "Do you believe that there is a real, absolute and obejctive evil in existence [...]?"

  4. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Lark's question was quite clear about that, though: "Do you believe that there is a real, absolute and obejctive evil in existence [...]?"
    That's not clear at all. There's no definition of "evil" provided.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Tiger Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    584 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,082

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Pretty much.

    It's one of those terms where there's a lot of meanings, so it needs to be openly-defined for coherent discussion to take place. Otherwise some people define it as being subjective, some as being objective, some as relative and such yet act like they are talking about the same thing.
    Perhaps they are all partly correct. Evil is the antithesis of good, of righteousness, of love, and all the synonyms of the same. If one talks about evil in subjective, objective, philosophical, socio-religious, esoteric or experiential terms they are but describing characteristics of that which is evil. By looking at all the facets, all the perspectives that we can observe a more complete picture of evil and realize it for what it is.
    INTJ 5w4 sx/sp 584 ILI-Ni

  6. #16
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,488

    Default

    I really do think that any meaning of 'evil' has the characteristic of 'otherness'. Of something you can't identify with, you can't believe a human could do. It's a dehumnizing term, technically.

  7. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I really do think that any meaning of 'evil' has the characteristic of 'otherness'. Of something you can't identify with, you can't believe a human could do. It's a dehumnizing term, technically.
    I've heard so many where it refers to something the speaker is aware that they themselves do. So they will say something like "all humans are evil", and the actual meaning of their phrase is something like "all humans are self-serving". There are definitions where evil is what the speaker wants or strives for.

    One of the more common meanings is something the speaker is repelled by. Often the definition is referring to whatever they are actually repelled by, so it takes on an objective meaning (e.g. killing or suffering). Some people will define evil as the repulsion itself though, and thus conclude that evil is subjective (or objective if they refer to the repulsion as its own object).

    I'm not sure why terms end up like this. Perhaps it helps unite people, as they use the same term yet fail to realise they aren't using the same meaning, causing larger groups work together and be more effective at various tasks. That is just wild armchair speculation though, and I wouldn't put any weight on it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    That's not clear at all. There's no definition of "evil" provided.
    The whole thread hinges on the undefinedness of the term, which, though certainly fuzzy, has some core idea to it that most people share. Perhaps we agree more on what 'happiness' means than on what 'evil' is, but it is enough to work with - especially considering the importance of the work.

    However, your initial fear was that "some people define it as being subjective, some as being objective, some as relative". That, at least, should be preventable by reading the opening post.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Spurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    MBTI
    xNxx
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Evil is anything that opposes God.

    Interestingly, God permits evil to exist, which seems like a contradiction but is not, if you know that God always uses evil for good.

    But that's getting into some deep theological waters which may be beyond the scope of this thread.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Well, there is the school of thought that says that evil is what evil does, but I don't really buy that. All acts of evil proceed from very natural and good impulses, usually in an incorrect or inappropriate manner. What makes it evil, is like you mentioned, we don't wish to identify with it and push it off to 'other'.

    Maybe the closest thing to true evil is impersonal, things like disease and natural disaster. Those things are true 'other'.
    Well Fromm, who rejected Jung's thesis of an objective, external evil along with a lot of other ideas as closet theism, suggested that when natural growth and development or impulses where blocked, when good was impossible, the same drives got channelled in an evil way. For instance a sado-masochist is someone whose basic drive for love and relating has been corrupted into coercing and controlling. He had two basic orientations towards existence in his final theory, bio-philis, life orientated, or necro-philis, death orientated, his theory uses the word necrophilis in a different way to it had been previously, its not simply eroticising the dead, so you could prefer objects to people or animals or only prefer people and animals if you can render them into objects, prefering having to being, joy to possessiveness. Sorry, I digress. Anyway, he meant that evil is only human in its origins and abnormal.

    While I like Fromm's theories, I still kind of think that Jung's theory of an objective evil makes sense, evil isnt just the abscence of good, that's a little inert and at times evil is really, really proactive and unmistakeable. I cant dismiss the idea of objective external good or evil, as natural forces, like gravitation, as superstition just yet.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-18-2013, 02:24 AM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-12-2011, 04:33 PM
  3. Psychological Functions and objectivity/subjectivity
    By KLessard in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  4. Subjectivity and Objectivity in Type
    By benos in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-08-2010, 05:42 PM
  5. Internet Forums, 'Real Life', and Personality distortion
    By Members Only in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 09-29-2008, 07:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO