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  1. #11
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You mean you believe that goodness is good?
    I believe that goodness has value, yes.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  2. #12
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I believe that goodness has value, yes.
    How do you define 'goodness'? Is it being nice to people or an abstract concept? Because the latter would render your belief circular.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    oxymorons gone awry. i tell you what - its 2011 and most of the forum members are American; what small hick town do you have to live in to play worshiper on sundays when you don't give a damn what jesus would do on anyday, much less monday when you're driving pass a homeless man who looks like him with a sign saying he only has "6 toes and needs cash"?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Judaism

    http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2000/genmay00.html

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I know a few people who don't believe in god but attend religious ceremonies several times a year (catholic, jewish). I don't think that really counts as religious, though.
    Yeah, that wasnt really what I was thinking of.

  5. #15
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    How do you define 'goodness'? Is it being nice to people or an abstract concept? Because the latter would render your belief circular.
    Being nice to people, empathy, compassion. I'm not sure I'd have any use for goodness as an abstract concept.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm not an atheist, but hate religion. Maybe I should call myself an "apostate". Seems like it shares the same fate at least. Religious people don't truly care about atheism, but who/what synchronizes with it in it's totality.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm not an atheist, but hate religion. Maybe I should call myself an "apostate". Seems like it shares the same fate at least. Religious people don't truly care about atheism, but who/what synchronizes with it in it's totality.
    religion, the joke of mankind.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    When you believe in a source outside of yourself you are an atheist hence all religions are atheist in nature because the belief of a source outside of themselves is not a belief of a source inside of themselves.

    Touch wood.

    What religion does is create separation from source, from genuine spirituality by creating a bridge that the Priest, Imam or Kohen nor a Rabbi can replace and hence. Once you remove institution there is freedom, power no longer means the authority for religions to control what you must know, perform magic in the way of rituals and ceremonies for you nor teach and educate you in the ways and laws that are printed on paper that is channeled from dubious sources to begin with.

  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    When you believe in a source outside of yourself you are an atheist hence all religions are atheist in nature because the belief of a source outside of themselves is not a belief of a source inside of themselves.

    Touch wood.

    What religion does is create separation from source, from genuine spirituality by creating a bridge that the Priest, Imam or Kohen nor a Rabbi can replace and hence. Once you remove institution there is freedom, power no longer means the authority for religions to control what you must know, perform magic in the way of rituals and ceremonies for you nor teach and educate you in the ways and laws that are printed on paper that is channeled from dubious sources to begin with.
    The opposite of atheism isn't necessarily believing in a priest/rabbi/imam/etc. Or a large institution, for that matter. It's a deity (which, of course, is another source outside of one's self, but it's an entirely different ballpark too). It could very well be that believing in this deity is pantheistic, tied into nature and the universe as a whole. Which both includes yourself and all outside you. How do you respond to this kind of theism? They would say that cutting yourself off from that which is outside you is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe even some atheists would believe in the same concept. I've heard plenty of atheistic scientists who find connection to all that is outside of us from the fact that we and everything is all assembled from star dust (or should I say star "stuff"?).

    I'm just curious.. It seems like your definition of both theism and atheism centers around this idea of autonomy and the "self". When they can sometimes be more open than that.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The opposite of atheism isn't necessarily believing in a priest/rabbi/imam/etc. Or a large institution, for that matter. It's a deity (which, of course, is another source outside of one's self, but it's an entirely different ballpark too). It could very well be that believing in this deity is pantheistic, tied into nature and the universe as a whole. Which both includes yourself and all outside you. How do you respond to this kind of theism? They would say that cutting yourself off from that which is outside you is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. Maybe even some atheists would believe in the same concept. I've heard plenty of atheistic scientists who find connection to all that is outside of us from the fact that we and everything is all assembled from star dust (or should I say star "stuff"?).

    I'm just curious.. It seems like your definition of both theism and atheism centers around this idea of autonomy and the "self". When they can sometimes be more open than that.
    Good point. And my interpretation is once the ability to learn source is inside than from any outside source, does one start to appreciate that the universe is a unified consciousness and everything outside of you is starts from inside of you and that we are all connected. And by doing this dulistic thinking changes from believing that there we are cutting ourselves from the outside when we are reestablishing the connection from inside to the outside. It is micromanagment in a macro and micro world you are speaking of. By defining that everything outside of ourselves is assembled from star dust, implies that we are made from star dust which is an illusion?

    The Roman, Greek and Egyptian pantheons ascribe gods and goddesses, which are archetypes, symbols much like the seven deadly sins are archetypes, gods given life in a symbological way that are physical representations of personality ego. When people talk of the a light, a pearl, a sun during their death experiences and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel they are seeing inside of themselves, a partial hologram of where they began, instead of following the tunnel to reconnect with their higher consciousness and in turn understand that we are connected energetically inside, each and every one of us we are assuming the everything outside of ourselves, including star dust, deities are different in nature than what is inside. And while people come from near death experiences different and understand more of who they are in relation to their whole way of being, it is still at the start and the experience becomes a thing of the past as their life becomes once more attuned to the frequency and energy of the world around them.

    Once you become aware of an inner relationship with the self and in turn source of all that is then one begins to understand that the world and the universe and nature around us are interlinked not from outside but from inside. To assume that all that is is outside is dimentional, 3D alone, without taking the opportunity to appreciate that we are mutlidimentional and in our multidimentional insides a stronger relationship with source becomes apparent which is ourselves because we come from source and source is part of who we are. Which means many things to different people.

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